Francis: "Man without a woman beside him, is not the image of God"?

Started by Michael Wilson, June 19, 2018, 07:23:03 AM

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Michael Wilson

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope-francis/mass-casa-santa-marta/2018-06/pope-santa-marta-mass-women-exploitation.html
QuoteJesus' doctrine about women changes history. Before Jesus the view about women was one thing but after Jesus they are another. Jesus dignifies women and puts them on the same level as men because he takes that first word of the Creator, both are "the image and likeness of God", both of them; not first the man and then a little lower down the woman, no, both are. And a man without a woman beside him - whether as a mother, as a sister, as a bride, as a working companion, as a friend - that man by himself is not the image of God.

At least in traditional theology, a creature is the "image" of God, because it bears the imprint of a creator. Beyond this, an intelligent creature is in the "likeness" of God, when it is in the state of Grace, because Sanctifying Grace makes man or an Angel similar to God by this grace, which gives the creature a share in the Divine life.
As far as I can tell, what the Pope stated above, isn't anywhere close to being true.

"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers

Miriam_M

Quote from: Michael Wilson on June 19, 2018, 07:23:03 AM
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope-francis/mass-casa-santa-marta/2018-06/pope-santa-marta-mass-women-exploitation.html
Jesus' doctrine about women changes history. Before Jesus the view about women was one thing but after Jesus they are another.

That in itself is a problematic statement because the Church's view on the "before" and "after" of Jesus Christ is that He is the fulfillment on a continuum.

QuoteAnd a man without a woman beside him - whether as a mother, as a sister, as a bride, as a working companion, as a friend - that man by himself is not the image of God.

Our Lady is the mother, sister, working companion, and friend of every man, and she is the bride of the Holy Ghost, whose gifts Confirmed men have also received and whose life men partake in through the sacraments.  Thus, a man is never "without a woman beside him."
;)

I'm obviously just making a point of argument along the lines of his faulty reasoning, but adopting his novel premises.  But yes, Church teaching is that every human being is made in the image of God.  It has nothing to do with companionship, which is granted as one of the fruits of creation.

QuoteAs far as I can tell, what the Pope stated above, isn't anywhere close to being true.
Of course it isn't. 

Greg

Well, my wife is "all knowing".

So that's one out of three, I guess.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Prayerful

Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.

longstrangetrip5

Quote from: Prayerful on June 20, 2018, 10:33:22 AM
More of the usual Bergoglian makey-up theology.  ::)
I get what he is saying but he didn't word things precisely

he is very imprecise

man alone is still in the image of God whether there is a woman beside him or not

does the pope have a sister around? I mean, all men have women "around" so ... gee, it's happening again, i am finding myself getting more confused.. I just will say this one thing:

the pope should be a little more careful how he words things.

Prayerful

Quote from: longstrangetrip5 on July 14, 2018, 09:41:42 AM
Quote from: Prayerful on June 20, 2018, 10:33:22 AM
More of the usual Bergoglian makey-up theology.  ::)
I get what he is saying but he didn't word things precisely

he is very imprecise

man alone is still in the image of God whether there is a woman beside him or not

does the pope have a sister around? I mean, all men have women "around" so ... gee, it's happening again, i am finding myself getting more confused.. I just will say this one thing:

the pope should be a little more careful how he words things.

It seems clear enough from five years of odd statements that the Pope is deliberately careless.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.

Vetus Ordo

"And a man without a woman beside him - whether as a mother, as a sister, as a bride, as a working companion, as a friend - that man by himself is not the image of God."

Is this a subtle condemnation of monastic life?
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.

Heinrich

This speak could be paving the way for a female diaconate.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

clau clau

On the other hand it's probably just more Bergobbledygook.
Father time has an undefeated record.

But when he's dumb and no more here,
Nineteen hundred years or near,
Clau-Clau-Claudius shall speak clear.
(https://completeandunabridged.blogspot.com/2009/06/i-claudius.html)

Kirin

It sounded to me like a rather carefully worded condemnation of LGBT to me.

Subtle enough to make his opposition clear, but not by any means softening his stance in this area.

Michael Wilson

Quote from: Kirin on July 18, 2018, 07:50:40 AM
It sounded to me like a rather carefully worded condemnation of LGBT to me.

Subtle enough to make his opposition clear, but not by any means softening his stance in this area.
So subtle that it was lost on everyone but yourself.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers

Kirin

Quote from: Michael Wilson on July 18, 2018, 07:55:34 AM

So subtle that it was lost on everyone but yourself.

I could be miles off, I just googled to see what he'd been up to the past few weeks and there has been some more rumblings against LGBT movements in historically Catholic territories as of late; several states such as Ireland and France are both considering legislation at the moment that would make practicing conversion therapy a criminal offense which while VII does not support this idea officially; it is nonetheless funded and practiced by some of their agencies such as the COURAGE apostolate.

I try to read what he says in context from recent events; could be entirely wrong and while he does try to be all things to all people, he's not desperate enough to sell out entirely yet on the women priests.

Innocent Smith

Quote from: Kirin on July 18, 2018, 07:50:40 AM
It sounded to me like a rather carefully worded condemnation of LGBT to me.

Subtle enough to make his opposition clear, but not by any means softening his stance in this area.

As usual the statement is entirely vague as to be without meaning. Which can lead to individual meanings where it means something different for every receiver.

To me it could mean that women are necessary in combat. Or maybe even in pornography, so long as she is paired with a man.
I am going to hold a pistol to the head of the modern man. But I shall not use it to kill him, only to bring him to life.

longstrangetrip5

Quote from: Prayerful on July 14, 2018, 03:30:25 PM
Quote from: longstrangetrip5 on July 14, 2018, 09:41:42 AM
Quote from: Prayerful on June 20, 2018, 10:33:22 AM
More of the usual Bergoglian makey-up theology.  ::)
I get what he is saying but he didn't word things precisely

he is very imprecise

man alone is still in the image of God whether there is a woman beside him or not

does the pope have a sister around? I mean, all men have women "around" so ... gee, it's happening again, i am finding myself getting more confused.. I just will say this one thing:

the pope should be a little more careful how he words things.

It seems clear enough from five years of odd statements that the Pope is deliberately careless.
I agree

I don't pay any attention to him these days. In fact, I wonder about some of the popes who went before him. He probably wouldn't have been made pope if not for.. a pathway being made for him by liberals at the Vatican..

it would be depressing if it weren't for the fact that Jesus kinda told us so... He spoke of wolves in sheep's clothing.. weeds among the wheat. In fact, I beleive that was today's reading, how Jesus doesn't pull up the weeds until the End

Some want to pull the weeds up NOW.. and who can blame them?