Are human survival instincts wrong or sinful

Started by Chestertonian, June 10, 2018, 06:25:49 PM

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Chestertonian

June 10, 2018, 06:25:49 PM
I spend a lot of the day experiencing fight/flight/freeze response.  Often it happens with suction when the nurse literally takes my breath away for a few moments and I panic because I feel like I'm going to die and in that moment (which is usually 8-10 times a day more if I'm going through an infection)

Yet it seems like the martyrs had no fear of death and I am always in awe that it seemed like they never experienced fight flight freeze responses

St Maria Goretti andso many "martyrs for purity" didn't freeze up and shut down... What was going on with their vagus nerve. Did they fight against the fight or flight/frezec instimce

when I can't breathe is like my mind shuts down and I know I have no control of my fate and I just dissociate because it's hard being in my body.. I have a hard time psychologically calming down after these ho hum everyday procedures and they nurses don't understand why I'm not used to it
"I am not much of a Crusader, that is for sure, but at least I am not a Mohamedist!"

Chestertonian

#1
June 10, 2018, 06:31:26 PM
On one level I'm only human... But it feels like we're held to these superhuman standards for holiness
"I am not much of a Crusader, that is for sure, but at least I am not a Mohamedist!"

Chestertonian

#2
June 10, 2018, 06:48:22 PM
i worry that is effeminate to panic every time and that I'm offending God by not being more indifferent
"I am not much of a Crusader, that is for sure, but at least I am not a Mohamedist!"

mikemac

#3
June 11, 2018, 12:38:14 AM
Quote from: Chestertonian on June 10, 2018, 06:25:49 PM
I spend a lot of the day experiencing fight/flight/freeze response.  Often it happens with suction when the nurse literally takes my breath away for a few moments and I panic because I feel like I'm going to die and in that moment (which is usually 8-10 times a day more if I'm going through an infection)

Yet it seems like the martyrs had no fear of death and I am always in awe that it seemed like they never experienced fight flight freeze responses

St Maria Goretti andso many "martyrs for purity" didn't freeze up and shut down... What was going on with their vagus nerve. Did they fight against the fight or flight/frezec instimce

when I can't breathe is like my mind shuts down and I know I have no control of my fate and I just dissociate because it's hard being in my body.. I have a hard time psychologically calming down after these ho hum everyday procedures and they nurses don't understand why I'm not used to it

How to heck could you possibly get used to that.  What are the nurses thinking.  You can't get used to not breathing.  Even when something goes down the wrong way and you start to choke it's a panic situation.  Is the suction to clear phlegm? 
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
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OCLittleFlower

#4
June 11, 2018, 04:45:34 AM
Some saints were given extraordinary graces to withstand extreme things...lacking that is not sinning.
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MilesChristi

#5
June 11, 2018, 08:03:23 AM
Your survival instincts are not sinful
The world is charged with the grandeur of God.
    It will flame out, like shining from shook foil;
    It gathers to a greatness, like the ooze of oil
Crushed. Why do men then now not reck his rod?
Generations have trod, have trod, have trod;
    And all is seared with trade; bleared, smeared with toil;
    And wears man's smudge and shares man's smell: the soil
Is bare now, nor can foot feel, being shod.

And for all this, nature is never spent;
    There lives the dearest freshness deep down things;
And though the last lights off the black West went
    Oh, morning, at the brown brink eastward, springs —
Because the Holy Ghost over the bent
    World broods with warm breast and with ah! bright wings.

Carleendiane

#6
June 11, 2018, 09:09:59 AM
Instincts are just that. They are in the brain for our protection. Hands in your mouth fear or your feeling while they are fixing your trach is panic in part due to past trauma. I too would panic with my breathing cut off, even momentarily. This acute panic is not a "choice". It's not a character display of lacking courage or faith. It kicks in, then leaves.

Nope, your gonna have to look a bit harder to find something to accuse yourself of, Ches.  ;D 

God can override all of our most natural responses to threat, but what we read in saints stories, is extra-ordinary, for the benefit of others. These are not examples of heroism, as much as examples of what God can do for you in the face of death. Singing, in the process of death is a display of extra-ordinary grace. It's not normal human reaction. Its not h :grouphug:ow "good" Catholics die during violent deaths. Normal human reactions are...well...normal. Does anyone really think God will think less of us if we react in ways He actually designed us to react? Even if it's because of a panic disorder, your God given fight/flight is triggered, does what it was designed to do. This is hardly due to sinful behavior. You're a smart man, Ches, you know this, but your scruples won't let you relax for a moment, will they?  :grouphug:
To board the struggle bus: no whining, board with a smile, a fake one will be found out and put off at next stop, no maps, no directions, going only one way, one destination. Follow all rules and you will arrive. Drop off at pearly gate. Bring nothing.

jovan66102

#7
June 11, 2018, 11:53:46 AM
What everyone else has said. How can instinctive reactions given us by God be sinful?
Jovan-Marya Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

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angelcookie

#8
June 11, 2018, 02:23:18 PM
This is a normal panic reaction to the invasive procedure of suctioning. How can this reaction be an obstacle to your path to sainthood, because imo I don't think it is hurting your soul to cry out and ask for Gods help. You are on the path already Chester, surrendering to the will of God and asking for grace and accepting it. I think these are the biggest things, yet most difficult to surrender to at times.

Maybe we can talk about how beautiful it is outside today. The sun is out. The birds are singing. The breeze is soft. Mass today was beautiful. The Annunciation during the rosary recital this morning, was a gift of hope for me and I hope you can have that too.

Non Nobis

#9
June 11, 2018, 07:43:11 PM
Do our posts make sense to you, Chestertonian? Are we helping? It is so hard to know when you don't reply, as you so often don't.  God doesn't expect everyone to be St. Maria Goretti; please believe this, because it is true. Be at peace.
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!
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