Getting overpaid due to rounding error?

[Greg]

If you are buying lunch for a client anywhere in the first world you are not going for rock bottom prices.  You're going to buy something reasonably decent.  You're not going to go to Sam's Club, and buy sandwiches that are reduced for quick sale.  What you spend on lunch is irrelevant.  We are talking about getting a lunch ordered for 30 people.

A sandwich is $5 at least in any US metropolis.  In New York City you cannot get anything worth eating for less than $10, locally and conveniently.  If you want to impress (which is the point of buying business lunch) then probably $12-15 for Sushi or similar meal.

A drink is $2.50 at least.

Some cookies or potato chips or a flapjack and you've done $10 per person.

[Greg]

Maybe the company you work for is incredibly wasteful but I cannot conceive of something like this resulting in a loss of $5000 plus 5 to 10 times that amount.

OK let me enlighten you.

Software company with 100 staff, $15million revenue and gross profits of $3m per year.  Operating costs just to keep the office functioning are $1500 per hour.  $5000 per hour for full operating costs.

Mistake one.  To imagine that people do 8 hours of real work per day.  Between the distractions and other BS that goes on in an office you'll be lucky to get 2 hours of productive work per employee.

Manager is paid say $60k.  Senior manager is paid $100k.  These are conservative numbers.  Total cost of employment is 100k and 150k at least.  Assume 220 productive days per year at work (taking into account sickness holidays etc).  Each day costs over $1000 per manager in full employment costs.  But those $1000 dollars only account for around 5 hours of productive work.

Between the two of them did they spend 1 hour of productive work on it?  Almost certainly.  Just writing an email and examining this stuff take this long.  Then there is following stuff up afterwards.

http://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2012/dec/17/ban-staff-email-halton-housing-trust

Independent research by Atos Origin highlighted that the average employee spends 40% of their working week dealing with internal emails which add no value to the business. In short, your colleagues only start working on anything of value from Wednesday each week. Our own analysis found worrying levels of email traffic: of 95,000 emails sent, 75,000 were internal, while 68% of the 127,000 received also came from internal sources.

There is no such thing as a 30 second interruption.
Simple distractions can cost you a lot in terms of work it has been revealed.

According to new research it has been discovered that it takes an average of 23 minutes and 15 seconds to re-engage after an interruption with your previous task.

This new finding is thanks to Gloria Mark from the University of California, Irvine who found that interruptions cause more stress, bad moods and lower productivity.

http://www.joe.ie/fitness-health/time-wasted-at-work-is-a-lot-higher-than-you-think/506067

[Daniel]

Maybe the company you work for is incredibly wasteful but I cannot conceive of something like this resulting in a loss of $5000 plus 5 to 10 times that amount.

OK let me enlighten you.

Software company with 100 staff, $15million revenue and gross profits of $3m per year.  Operating costs just to keep the office functioning are $1500 per hour.  $5000 per hour for full operating costs.

Mistake one.  To imagine that people do 8 hours of real work per day.  Between the distractions and other BS that goes on in an office you'll be lucky to get 2 hours of productive work per employee.

Manager is paid say $60k.  Senior manager is paid $100k.  These are conservative numbers.  Total cost of employment is 100k and 150k at least.  Assume 220 productive days per year at work (taking into account sickness holidays etc).  Each day costs over $1000 per manager in full employment costs.  But those $1000 dollars only account for around 5 hours of productive work.

Between the two of them did they spend 1 hour of productive work on it?  Almost certainly.  Just writing an email and examining this stuff take this long.  Then there is following stuff up afterwards.

http://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2012/dec/17/ban-staff-email-halton-housing-trust

Independent research by Atos Origin highlighted that the average employee spends 40% of their working week dealing with internal emails which add no value to the business. In short, your colleagues only start working on anything of value from Wednesday each week. Our own analysis found worrying levels of email traffic: of 95,000 emails sent, 75,000 were internal, while 68% of the 127,000 received also came from internal sources.

There is no such thing as a 30 second interruption.
Simple distractions can cost you a lot in terms of work it has been revealed.

According to new research it has been discovered that it takes an average of 23 minutes and 15 seconds to re-engage after an interruption with your previous task.

This new finding is thanks to Gloria Mark from the University of California, Irvine who found that interruptions cause more stress, bad moods and lower productivity.

http://www.joe.ie/fitness-health/time-wasted-at-work-is-a-lot-higher-than-you-think/506067

But my point is, none of this can be applied to all companies in general.  For example, the company that I worked for back when I started this thread was a lot smaller than that.
Also, resolving these sorts of issues is part of the manager's job.  That's part of what the company pays him for so I don't think it should be seen as an additional expense.  And even if it is, then isn't that B.'s fault, not lauermar's?

[Greg]

She's not working for a small company.  She has at least two layers of management and a corporate AMEX card.

A 100 person company is not large.

In a 10 person company the bureaucracy wouldn't create a situation like this.

[lauermar]

Greg, I find your response to be totally inappropriate, un-Catholic, and deplorable. I like many of your posts, but not this one. Yes, my business is selling but that does not mean in order to do it I have to keep $200 that doesn't belong to me. If $200 seams like nothing to you, well the commandment against stealing does not specify that the amount has to be higher in order to qualify as a sin.

The entire debacle is a "waste of company time" not because of anything I did but a basic failure of one person to OBEY the chain of command. The company has very strict rules against reps padding their expenses. When I worked in pharma they were extremely vigilant about that. This company is no exception. I cannot even record a $1 tollway charge on my expense report without providing a receipt.

I don't work for a small company either, but a national chain.

In short, I did not steal. Take that back.

[MilesChristi]

If the company does not accept the money, let it be. You tried to give it back, thry won't accept it. If you feel guilty, give it to charity.

[lauermar]

In response to the original poster---payroll rounds up but they also round down at other times during the year, if you pay attention. This is standard accounting procedure which I learned in graduate school. Therefore, you are not being overpaid, and no one is stealing. There is nothing immoral here. It all comes out in the wash with payroll taxes anyway.

What happened to me is a horse of another color. I know of 2 people who got fired for padding expense reports at 2 pharma companies I once worked for. So $200 is a very big deal, even for a giant drug company.

I am horrified at the thought that a Catholic blog would thing nothing of keeping $200 that doesn't belong to me, then blame me for causing a situation I had no control over.

[Greg]

You're not padding them for crying out loud!!!

You clearly spelled out what you were owed and what you had spent, and they, with the sign off of your manager paid you the higher amount.  From that point it is their decision.  You've done EVERYTHING that could reasonably be expected.

No judge in the civilised world would find you guilty of ANY manner of dishonesty.  You don't have to camp outside the CEO's office.  You don't have to mention it EVER again.

Keep the money and keep a photocopy of the expense claim.  If they ever question it, you're completely in the clear.  You do not have ANY DUTY WHATSOEVER to go to extraordinary lengths to point out that you've been overpaid.

Moreover, since it is not always possible to get receipts when you spend money on business, then over the course of your employment with a drug company you must lose at least several hundred dollars.  There are lots of items it is just not practical to claim.

For example, when you charge your work laptop computer at home do you charge your employer money for the electricity you've used?

I'm rude, to wake you up to the fact that you are such a pedantic twerp.  If that is 'Catholic', or we have to humor your pedantry, then I'm glad not to be.

[Daniel]

and they, with the sign off of your manager paid you the higher amount.  From that point it is their decision.

The company didn't make that decision.  The lost $200 was a result of a single manager not following company policy, and (to a lesser extent) that manager's supervisor failing to resolve it.  But the company itself is still unjustly out $200 and lauermar now has $200 that he is not entitled to.  Since there seems to be no way of returning the $200 to the company, I'd say it should just be given to charity.  Maybe wait a few weeks to make sure the issue does not get resolved.

[Greg]

The company is an inanimate legal construct.  The humans who work for it comprise "the company".

Her manager is able to make those decisions, which is why she got the expenses check on his sign off.  Once he has made them they have been made for 'the company'.  That is how a hierarchy works.  If a mistake has been made it is his mistake and between HIS manager and HIM to sort it out.  She's has complied with everything that can be expected in as much as she reported her spend fairly and correctly.

She does not need board level sign off for her expenses.

[Kaesekopf]

If you're worried about all this excess money, just give it to your favorite internet trad Catholic forum.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[Daniel]

The company is an inanimate legal construct.  The humans who work for it comprise "the company".

Her manager is able to make those decisions, which is why she got the expenses check on his sign off.  Once he has made them they have been made for 'the company'.  That is how a hierarchy works.  If a mistake has been made it is his mistake and between HIS manager and HIM to sort it out.

Even when the action is against company policy, not to mention dishonest?  I agree that if a mistake has been made, or if the manager deliberately signs off on a fraudulent transactions, then that's between him and his supervisor, but that doesn't mean that the company is okay with it.

She's has complied with everything that can be expected in as much as she reported her spend fairly and correctly.

Agree'd, but that doesn't mean that it's okay for her to keep the money.  If somebody gifts you with money that was obtained through error or theft then you are obliged to return it to its owner, even if you had nothing to do with the error or theft.  And in this case, since it most likely can't be returned to its owner, then the money should be given to charity.

[Kaesekopf]

The company is an inanimate legal construct.  The humans who work for it comprise "the company".

Her manager is able to make those decisions, which is why she got the expenses check on his sign off.  Once he has made them they have been made for 'the company'.  That is how a hierarchy works.  If a mistake has been made it is his mistake and between HIS manager and HIM to sort it out.

Even when the action is against company policy, not to mention dishonest?  I agree that if a mistake has been made, or if the manager deliberately signs off on a fraudulent transactions, then that's between him and his supervisor, but that doesn't mean that the company is okay with it.

The supervisor is an agent of the company and has been given authority/power to approve/deny expense reimbursement on behalf of the company.  Until that person is reprimanded for their actions, the company is "OK" with it. 

Heck, you can even see that the superior manager is OK with it.  A is instructing B to do something, and she won't.  So... 

If you feel terrible, give the $200 to the poor box/parish emergency aid program, or have some Masses said for the intentions of the employer, manager, or the parish. 

[dellery]

What a peculiar thread.

If you're over-payed by an employer report it to the supervisor/manager most fitting.

If they don't do anything about it don't worry, accounting will catch the overpayment and payroll will just deduct it from your future check/s.

[Sockpuppet]

I think it's important to note that managers A and B are probably saying what a difficult person you are who likes to stir the pot.