What are you currently reading?

[Matto]

He is like a pilgrim in this world.  His love is almost a kind of fanaticism.  What compels the fanatic?
. . .
It does not seem so strange to me, though, if the object of obsession is a beautiful woman.

Warning, this post is about sins though it is not graphic.

This book would remind me of my youthful romantic insanity. I know what it is like to fall into irrational fanaticism over a woman. I sometimes think about a girl who I fell in love with when I was younger. We worked together for a while. It was completely irrational. She was a former S&M prostitute. She was a submissive and people paid her to let them abuse her. She told me how one time one of her clients chained her to a radiator and left her there all night. I fell in love with her and she seemed to have liked me also, but we never dated or had sex. I would have married her and if I did it would have been a disaster in every way probably ending with both of us in hell. One time we spent the night together at her apartment but I was too scared to touch her other than letting her kiss my forehead a few times. She asked my permission and I allowed her. But I was petrified and we spent the whole night awake lying next to each other without sleeping, watching movies, as I hand-rolled and chain-smoked cigarettes. It is possible that I have never been more afraid than I was of her that night. And I thought at the time that that night of pure terror was one of the best nights of my life. On the last night we worked together she came up to me in the back room and grabbed my head and kissed me on the lips. Then after work I walked her half the way home and we talked. I remember her telling me that I always said the right thing like Cary Grant in the movies. Obviously this happened in my years when I sinned with women and had no religion, before I converted. Sometimes I look at pictures of her online to remind myself of what she looked like. I would post her picture here and ask if people thought she was beautiful, but I do not want to reveal her identity. I wonder if she ever thinks of me like I do of her sometimes. I do not miss her or wish that we did get married, but I think about how irrational our relationship was and what a disaster it would have been.

[red solo cup]

The First Salute: A View of the American Revolution by Barbara Tuchman.

[Mono no aware]

This book would remind me of my youthful romantic insanity. I know what it is like to fall into irrational fanaticism over a woman. I sometimes think about a girl who I fell in love with when I was younger. We worked together for a while. It was completely irrational. She was a former S&M prostitute. She was a submissive and people paid her to abuse her. I fell in love with her and she seemed to have liked me also, but we never dated or had sex. I would have married her and if I did it would have been a disaster in every way probably ending with both of us in hell. One time we spent the night together at her apartment but I was too scared to touch her other than letting her kiss my forehead a few times. She asked my permission and I allowed her. But I was petrified and we spent the whole night awake lying next to each other without sleeping, watching movies, as I hand-rolled and chain-smoked cigarettes. It is possible that I have never been more afraid than I was of her that night. And I thought at the time that that night of pure terror was one of the best nights of my life. On the last night we worked together she came up to me in the back room and grabbed my head and kissed me on the lips. Then after work I walked her half the way home and we talked. I remember her telling me that I always said the right thing like Cary Grant in the movies. Obviously this happened in my years when I sinned with women and had no religion, before I converted. Sometimes I look at pictures of her online to remind myself of what she looked like. I would post her picture here and ask if people thought she was beautiful, but I do not want to reveal her identity. I wonder if she ever thinks of me like I do of her sometimes. I do not miss her or wish that we did get married, but I think about how irrational our relationship was and what a disaster it would have been.

Well, Matto, I think you have composed here one of your best posts.  This is a terrific vignette of autobiography.  A lot of fascinating strands woven into a single paragraph; a perfect marriage of detail and brevity.  Perhaps my favorite part: "it was completely irrational. She was a former S&M prostitute."  I enjoyed reading it, and thank you for sharing it.  The version I read last night was slightly longer (and IMO better), but I defer to the author in what should be taken out.  I would tell of a twenty-two-year-old Puerto Rican girl with jet black hair and sleeves of tattoos, but I could not hope to match you for your conciseness and wistful quality.  I will only say that I think you might like The Sufferings of Young Werther.  I disagree with Heinrich's assessment that it is petulant and emo.  I found it more solemn and fatalistic, though it is indeed passionate.

[Matto]

Well, Matto, I think you have composed here one of your best posts.  This is a terrific vignette of autobiography.
. . .
The version I read last night was slightly longer (and IMO better), but I defer to the author in what should be taken out.
. . .
I will only say that I think you might like The Sufferings of Young Werther.

When I edited my post I took out an important sentence that made the post much better I thought. But I removed it because I thought it might reveal the identity of the woman involved on the odd chance that someone who knew us would have read it. But now I changed my mind and put it back. Perhaps I am being paranoid that people are watching. I don't think any of my old friends read traditional Catholic forums. If I did not worry about revealing our identities I would have posted the woman's picture and given her name because pictures and names are important and I thought she was beautiful and that she had a very good name.

About The Sufferings of Young Werther, I was interested in it and found out that there are two versions, the original and one changed by the author years later, which version would you recommend and by which translator?

Edit: Is there a thread on SD where men talk about the irrational things they do when they fall in love with women? Sometimes when I think about it it makes me wonder if romantic love is just temptations from the devil to get men to fall into sin. Like, for example, suicide. But then again it serves the useful purpose of inspiring people to get married and start families. And it leads to great works of art, yet it also leads to more bad art than good and pornography.

[clau clau]

Brain on Fire: My Month of Madness

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brain-Fire-My-Month-Madness/dp/0141975342

[Mono no aware]

About The Sufferings of Young Werther, I was interested in it and found out that there are two versions, the original and one changed by the author years later, which version would you recommend and by which translator?

I'm not sure which version I have.  I notice that most translations are entitled The Sorrows of Young Werther, whereas mine is called The Sufferings of Young Werther.  I think I like "sufferings" better.  There is an anguish in unrequited love more so than there is a sorrow.  Sorrow comes later.  But maybe the German word is more accurately rendered "sorrow."  The name of the translator is Harry Steinhauer.  This is yet another of many instances where it would be nice if AustrianOrthodoxCatholic were still here.  His command of English was far better than most native speakers (he was the best writer on this forum), and yet his mother tongue was German, so he more than almost anyone else in the world would surely be able to tell us which English translation comes closest to capturing the original.  He had a lot of wisdom to offer and all I could see fit to do was bug him about papal infallibility, a topic so pointless and frustrating and impossible to pin down I don't even care about it anymore.  Well, life is full of regrets.  At least that's only a minor one.

I skimmed the afterword to see if there was an indication as to which edition mine is.  No luck, but I liked this portion of the commentary: "Werther puts into [his love for Lotte] the spiritual energies which a Christian ought to reserve for his God and his religion."  Heinrich and I would share this assessment.  I've changed my mind about the best sentence in your story.  It's this one: "I would have married her and if I did it would have been a disaster in every way probably ending with both of us in hell."

[Mono no aware]

Is there a thread on SD where men talk about the irrational things they do when they fall in love with women? Sometimes when I think about it it makes me wonder if romantic love is just temptations from the devil to get men to fall into sin. Like, for example, suicide. But then again it serves the useful purpose of inspiring people to get married and start families. And it leads to great works of art, yet it also leads to more bad art than good and pornography.

If there is such a thread, it's probably in the "St. Joseph's Workbench" subforum (men only).  But I don't have access to that forum.  Somehow I don't like the name.  I also don't like how it shows up between one's user name and ranking.  My user name is horrible enough as it is.  "Feldwebel" is about the best thing I have going for me, and I don't want to clutter that space up with "St. Joseph's Workbench."  I'm doubtless missing out on some good threads.  I do wonder what goes on in there.

[Kaesekopf]

I did figure out how to add someone to the men's group and have it not show in their profile.  Fyi...

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

[Gardener]

Edit: Is there a thread on SD where men talk about the irrational things they do when they fall in love with women? Sometimes when I think about it it makes me wonder if romantic love is just temptations from the devil to get men to fall into sin. Like, for example, suicide. But then again it serves the useful purpose of inspiring people to get married and start families. And it leads to great works of art, yet it also leads to more bad art than good and pornography.

So you're saying that the Holy Spirit allowed, inspired, and used diabolical disorientation in order to write of God's love for His people, and in relation of Christ to the Church? a la Song of Solomon, etc.?

[Matto]

So you're saying that the Holy Spirit allowed, inspired, and used diabolical disorientation in order to write of God's love for His people, and in relation of Christ to the Church? a la Song of Solomon, etc.?

Yes, Gardner, I truly believe that the Song of Solomon was not inspired by the Holy Ghost, but was really inspired by the devil and that the Church was wrong to endorse it and put it in the Canon (This caused confusion so I will make it clear that this is a joke. I was kidding, I do not believe that the Song of Solomon was inspired by the devil). You found me out. Actually what I do wonder sometimes is that perhaps some people are inspired by God to love each other but many or most I would say are tempted by the devil when they "fall in love". Yes, I am at fault for not using the word "most" or "many" and just speaking generally. I could easily believe that the time I "fell in love" with the girl I posted about in this thread it was due in part to the inspirations of the devil or his demons of lust who inflamed my passions, inspiring my irrational attraction, and that this happens often, leading to many millions of bad relationships (In case this is not clear also, this part of the post is not a joke, but something I have considered).

[martin88nyc]

So you're saying that the Holy Spirit allowed, inspired, and used diabolical disorientation in order to write of God's love for His people, and in relation of Christ to the Church? a la Song of Solomon, etc.?

Yes, Gardner, I truly believe that the Song of Solomon was not inspired by the Holy Ghost, but was really inspired by the devil and that the Church was wrong to endorse it and put it in the Canon. You found me out. Actually what I do wonder sometimes is that perhaps some people are inspired by God to love each other but many or most I would say are tempted by the devil when they "fall in love". Yes, I am at fault for not using the word "most" or "many" and just speaking generally. I could easily believe that the time I "fell in love" with the girl I posted about in this thread it was due in part to the inspirations of the devil or his demons of lust who inflamed my passions, inspiring my irrational attraction, and that this happens often, leading to many millions of bad relationships.

What???!!!

[Matto]

I am still reading The Six Enneads by Plotinus. I cannot understand it well or remember it well but I want to finish reading it.

[Maximilian]

Sometimes when I think about it it makes me wonder if romantic love is just temptations from the devil to get men to fall into sin. Like, for example, suicide.

Yes.

But then again it serves the useful purpose of inspiring people to get married and start families.

No, this is a false argument. People got married and started families before the days of Goethe and Lord Byron. Much more effectively than today.

Today marriage is a dying institution. No advanced nation is having enough children to replace itself. The more that romance has taken over, the more that relationships between men and women have become impossible.

There was an article about the situation in Japan that got a lot of attention a couple years ago. Men and women find each too mendokusai to bother with each other. Mendokusai is Japanese for "troublesome." Relationships between the sexes are just too much bother. The Japanese don't need to use birth control anymore. They just aren't interested in each other.

This is the result of 2 centuries of romanticism. It's not just Japan. Here in the US and the rest of the West, men and women just find each other totally unappealing.

[Non Nobis]

But then again it serves the useful purpose of inspiring people to get married and start families.

No, this is a false argument. People got married and started families before the days of Goethe and Lord Byron. Much more effectively than today.

Romanticism has become excessive, and certainly isn't the be-all-and-end-all of marriage.  But even people in arranged marriages (that may sometimes end up better) surely often have some romantic interest in each other (even if only after the marriage) that most certainly does not hurt the marriage: even if the romance may end.  It seem to me natural that this should be true before people marry too - romance that is moral is surely sometimes intended by God as an innocent indication that people may be meant for each other by Him.  Not a proof, since the attraction between too people might come from another source than God. But God uses natural means too.

[Non Nobis]

So you're saying that the Holy Spirit allowed, inspired, and used diabolical disorientation in order to write of God's love for His people, and in relation of Christ to the Church? a la Song of Solomon, etc.?

Yes, Gardner, I truly believe that the Song of Solomon was not inspired by the Holy Ghost, but was really inspired by the devil and that the Church was wrong to endorse it and put it in the Canon. You found me out. Actually what I do wonder sometimes is that perhaps some people are inspired by God to love each other but many or most I would say are tempted by the devil when they "fall in love". Yes, I am at fault for not using the word "most" or "many" and just speaking generally. I could easily believe that the time I "fell in love" with the girl I posted about in this thread it was due in part to the inspirations of the devil or his demons of lust who inflamed my passions, inspiring my irrational attraction, and that this happens often, leading to many millions of bad relationships.

What???!!!

Martin, Matto was joking - not clear from his ORIGINAL op, but after you read it he modified it to this:

So you're saying that the Holy Spirit allowed, inspired, and used diabolical disorientation in order to write of God's love for His people, and in relation of Christ to the Church? a la Song of Solomon, etc.?

Yes, Gardner, I truly believe that the Song of Solomon was not inspired by the Holy Ghost, but was really inspired by the devil and that the Church was wrong to endorse it and put it in the Canonn (This caused confusion so I will make it clear that this is a joke. I was kidding, I do not believe that the Song of Solomon was inspired by the devil). You found me out. Actually what I do wonder sometimes is that perhaps some people are inspired by God to love each other but many or most I would say are tempted by the devil when they "fall in love". Yes, I am at fault for not using the word "most" or "many" and just speaking generally. I could easily believe that the time I "fell in love" with the girl I posted about in this thread it was due in part to the inspirations of the devil or his demons of lust who inflamed my passions, inspiring my irrational attraction, and that this happens often, leading to many millions of bad relationships (In case this is not clear also, this part of the post is not a joke, but something I have considered).

You have to really be careful about joking/sarcasm/etc online!