Started by james03, November 29, 2022, 10:09:36 AM
Quote from: Melkite on December 01, 2022, 08:27:58 PMIn genere and in specie are categories that began to be distinguished when? Certainly not in the time of Christ or the apostles. So if one changes form, one does not respect form, whether it is categorized as in genere or in specie long after the fact.
QuoteWe have nothing but Sr. Lucia reporting the conditions. There were no 3rd party witnesses to the conversation. There are several private revelations from other seers where they described the conversation as "it seemed as if this was meant" or something to that effect. As you say, she herself was not infallible or immune. She could have misunderstood, misperceived, who knows. We're not able to look at a recording of the conversation to see what conditions the Theotokos set on the consecration, or what may have been recommendations or preferences, but not absolute deal breakers the way they are reported.
Quote from: james03 on December 02, 2022, 01:56:49 PMQuoteFr. Kramer himself, sadly, has gone full-on crazy into bene-land or sede-land, but what he related above stands.That's the part you left out. The legitimate successor of Pope Benedict would do the consecration, because I believe it was Ruffini who said there would be an anti-Pope after Pope Benedict. Kramer discussed it in the video that was posted on this forum.That's why Kramer is full-on bene-land, because he was expecting Bergoglio to be an anti-Pope.If anyone has access to the video I referenced, please post it.
QuoteFr. Kramer himself, sadly, has gone full-on crazy into bene-land or sede-land, but what he related above stands.
Quote1) In 1942, Pope Pius XII consecrated the whole of humanity, implicitly including Russia, to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. 2) In 1952, Pope Pius XII consecrated "the peoples of Russia" to the Immaculate Heart in Sacro vergente anno, although it was notably not done in communion with bishops worldwide (as requested by Our Lady of Fátima).3) In 1964, Pope Paul VI also consecrated humanity, and thus implicitly Russia, to the Immaculate Heart of Mary at the end of the third session of Vatican II.4) In 1981 and 1982, Pope John Paul II also consecrated the whole human race to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.5) In 1983, Pope John Paul II set out to rectify any errors that had occurred with the previous consecrations; and on December 8, 1983, he sent a letter to all bishops worldwide, Catholic and Orthodox, asking them to join him in March 1984 for an Act of Entrustment to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Before doing the consecration, the pope consulted Sister Lúcia so as to make sure this consecration of Russia would be valid. However, on March 25, 1984, Pope John Paul II did not mention Russia when he declared an act of consecration of "those men and nations who are in special need of this entrustment and consecration."
Quote"Fatima's 1984 Consecration – the FactsRichard Salbato - Holy Week 2011I feel like I am the only Catholic in America that believes in the Consecration that Pope John Paul II did in 1984. I constantly have to defend my faith in this consecration by people who are constantly insisting that because the Holy Father did not use the word "Russia" it cannot be true. They also use the argument that Russia is not converted as promised. In fact the leadership of Russia today is not friendly to the West and is not Democratic. These are good observations and I can understand their skepticism based on the facts they have ...By 1981 - 73% of the world was Communist170 million had died since Fatima50 million in world war II115 million under Stalin and Mao1 million in Afghanistan1 million in Cambodia1 million in VietnamOn May 13th 1981 ( the feast of Fatima) the Pope was Shot.In the hospital his nurse said that Our Lady of Fatima had saved his life. He did not know a lot about Fatima so in the hospital he read every book he could get.In 1981 the National conference of Catholic Bishops of the US sent a letter to the Holy Father requesting the Consecration1982 - May 13th at Fatima - Consecrated world to IHM (Lucia said it was not correctly done)So the Holy Father Sent his Secretary of State to Fatima and Lucia and Maccias Cohair sat with him for six hours explaining exactly how the consecration had to be done.And on March 25, 1984 Pope John Paul and the bishops throughout the world consecrated Russia and the world to the IHM. Even Russian Orthodox Bishops entered in. A few years later Lucia said, Our Lady has accepted the 1984 consecration and She will keep Her promise."This was exactly 100 years after the Vision of Pope Leo XIII. When Satan was granted 100 years to try and destroy God's Church ...edit: breaking up the post
Quote"After the 1984 ConsecrationAfter the consecration a strange happening took place. An explosion in Siberia destroyed Russia's largest ammunition base. This was the heart of its power base and no one knew why.Five days later on Dec 19 Marshal Ustinov, the Minister of Defense, died or was killedThree days later Marshal Sodolov, the 2ed Minister of Defense diedAll in 9 months from the consecration.In March of 1985 (one Year after consecration) President Chernenko died and Mikhial Gorbachev was made President. He was the First Baptized Christian President although still a communist. He instituted glassnoss and perestroika (freedom of the press and freedom of religion) This was the downfall of communism. 15 republics were freed from communism, and the Warsaw pact endedIn 1989 Lucia said publicly that the Consecration was completed and that "God will keep His Word". That year on Nov 9th the Berlin Wall came down and Gorbachev meet Pope at the Vatican and promised religious freedomThe following year on the Feast of Fatima, May 13th, freedom of religion was made the law of Russia. And on the feast of the miracle of Fatima, Oct 13, Gorbachev received the Nobel Peace PrizeTwo months later Gorbachev met the Pope in Vatican for 2ed time. In this meeting the Pope told him that he knew it was he that ordered the hit on the Pope. Gorbachev asked his forgiveness. (It is this story that Lucia was asked to keep silent about and nothing else.)In 1991 (March 15) diplomatic relations with the Vatican and Russia were opened and so were Latin-rite churches for the first time.May 1, 1991 was the 100 anniversary of Rerum Novarum, the encyclical "On the Condition of Human Labor by Pope Leo XII, and the Feast of St. Joseph, the Worker, and the end of May Day as a communist holiday.On May 13, 1991 Pope John Paul II went to Fatima to thank Our Lady for all the countries that were freed, for saving his life, and for the end of the communist threat to the world.But on Aug 19, 1991 the communists attempted to overthrow Gorbachev. They picked the wrong day for it was the 74th anniversary of the Aug appearance at Fatima. On Aug 22 the attempt failed and the communists were defeated. This was the feast of the Queenship of Mary.Two months later, on Oct 13 (another feast of Fatima) the first pilgrims of Russia went to Fatima. It was Televised in 150 stations in Russia and 350 Radio stations in Russia, and again on Nov 7th it was televised again.Dec 8th was the start of the Commonwealth of republics, The end of the USSR12 days later Yeltsin met with the Pope in RomeAnd 13 days after that (on Dec 25th, 1991) the Communist Flag came down for last time over RussiaGorbachev resigned and sent a letter to Pope John Paul II15 republics were freed from communism.On Dec 30th, 1991 Lucia wrote that the world will recognize that the defeat of Communism was by MaryIn 1992 another attempt was made to overthrow the government and Yelson stood against the entire communist army and no one died.On March 14, 1992 Pravda endedThen on Christmas day, 1992 Communism was declared illegal in RussiaBy 1996, Starting with People Power and Rosary in the Philippines, 87 dictatorships fell throughout the world.From March 25, 1884 until March 25, 1984 is exactly 100 years. In 1884 Pope Saint Leo XII saw Christ give Satan power for 100 years. In 1984 Pope John Paul II Consecrated Russia and the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Communism fell, 87 other dictators fell.The Icon of Kazan that was kept in Fatima for 50 years went back to Russia and was placed back in its Basilica by a Moslem Major. This same major built a special church for Our Lady of Fatima.In Moscow a special Church was made for the National Statue of Our Lady of Fatima."
Quote"The annihilation of nations, the making of nations "disappear," clearly refers to the Soviet Union and its takeover of the Baltic States. Frere Michel even applies the "annihilation of nations" to the other nations that the Soviet Union incorporated into its orbit as satellites, such as Poland, etc. However, it most specifically refers to the erasing of the Baltic nations, as well as other small provinces such as North Bukovina and Bessarabia. And this surely would have happened to "many" other nations if Russia had not been consecrated.Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima, Vol. 3, pp. 193-194: "Is it necessary to enumerate these nations, which perhaps Our Lady of Fatima designated, announcing that 'various nations will be annihilated'? Torn from their age-old traditions, and from their Church, their society destroyed by the great Bolshevik machine, in effect, these countries are no longer themselves... There is Albania, where the persecution against the Church began in 1945. There is Hungary, with its 7 million Catholics out of 10 million inhabitants, where the apostolic nuncio was expelled in April, 1945... There is Poland (22 million Catholics), where in September, 1945, the government decided to break the concordat. There is Czechoslovakia, where out of 12 million inhabitants, almost nine million were Catholics. There is Orthodox Romania with its valiant minority of 3 million Eastern Rite faithful, where the government awaits the favorable hour to perform the same forced integration to the schismatic Church as in Ukraine. There is Bulgaria, where the Church numbers only 57,000. There is Tito's Yugoslavia... where a bloody persecution began in June – July, 1945."In every communist nation controlled by the Soviet Union, the press, the radio and education were totally controlled by the State. This became the sad and gloomy reality in country after country that fell to Communism. All of these satellites also vigorously persecuted the Church. For instance:"In Romania, with the active complicity of Patriarch Alexis of Moscow and the entire Orthodox national hierarchy, the communists decided on the liquidation, pure and simple, of the Greek-Catholic Church, which numbered 1,600,000 Faithful at the time. 'Towards the end of October, 1948, they proceeded to arrest the Byzantine Catholic Bishops, vicar generals, canons, and the majority of priests, about 600 in all. The government then proceeded to the confiscation of churches, and convents of monks and religious, in spite of their resistance.' On December 1 , the communist government published the decree suppressing the Eastern Catholic Church." (WTAF, Vol. 3, pp. 255-256)And this led to the "good being martyred," which has also been fulfilled:THE GOOD WERE MARTYREDIt is simply a fact that countless Catholics were martyred at the hands of the Soviet Union and its Communist satellites. Since this is well known, I will not give many quotes to prove the point. But it is significant to note again that even Frere Michel, whose work on Fatima is promoted by "Fr." Nicholas Gruner, admits that the "good will be martyred" has already occurred.Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite, The Whole Truth About Fatima, Vol. 2, p. 764: "When, in a letter of January 21, 1940, Sister Lucy mentioned in connection with the war 'the blood spilled by the martyrs', which in the end would appease the divine wrath, and when Our Lady announced in her Secret that 'the good will be martyred,' how can we forget about these millions of Ukrainian or Polish Catholics martyred by the Bolsheviks?"A prime example comes from Russia in 1923. At that time, Moscow attempted to blackmail the Vatican into granting its regime diplomatic recognition. Moscow gave orders for the arrest of high-placed cleric Msgr. Cieplak (apostolic administrator of the diocese of Mohilev), his vicar general, Msgr. Budkiewicz, and thirteen other priests. These clerics declared that they would not observe the 1922 law of the Soviet Union forbidding teaching the Catholic Faith to children (Warren H. Carroll, The Rise and Fall of the Communist Revolution, p. 310). Moscow agreed to their release if the Vatican agreed to diplomatic relations with its regime. The Russian regime knew that once the Vatican established diplomatic relations with it, the rest of Europe would follow. But the Vatican could not grant it such recognition, so Moscow executed the sentence:"On Holy Thursday of 1923, Msgr. Budkiewicz was martyred with frightful cruelty. Brutally pushed across a dark corridor, he fell and broke his leg... Stripped of his clothes and no longer able to walk, the martyr was dragged by the ears all the way to the detachment of guards. One of his ears had been severed. In the gaping hole, he was given a revolver shot. Father Walsh... heard the shot ring out among shouts, drunken singing and bursts of laughter. So that no relics would remain, the martyr's body was burned and his ashes dispersed. And this was the signal for a series of attacks against the hierarchy, clergy and laity, many of whom were sent to the icy prisons of Solowki on the Black Sea, where a concentration camp was specially assigned for Christians; others died in prison, some of them reduced to madness by the torments they had endured." (WTAF, Vol. 2, pp. 576-577)"...during the year 1922 alone more than 800 Catholic and Orthodox priests, brothers and nuns were shot in Russia." (WTAF, Vol. 2, p. 564)Pope Pius XI, Letter to Cardinal Pompili, Feb. 2, 1930: "This past year during the Christmas holy days, not only were hundreds of churches [in Russia] closed, great numbers of icons burned, all workers and schoolchildren compelled to work and Sundays suppressed, but they even compelled factory workers, both men and women, to sign a declaration of formal apostasy and hatred against God, or else be deprived of their bread rationing cards, without which every inhabitant of this poor country is reduced to dying of hunger, misery and cold. Among other things, in all the cities and in many villages... during the Christmas holy days last year: they witnessed a procession of tanks manned by numerous ruffians clad with sacred vestments, taking the cross in derision and spitting upon it while other armored cars transported huge Christmas trees, from which marionettes representing Catholic and Orthodox bishops were hung by the neck. In the center of the city, other young hoodlums committed all sorts of sacrileges against the cross." (quoted in WTAF, Vol. 2, p. 539)"In 1946 the Soviet authorities removed every Lithuanian bishop but one from his diocese... From 1946 to 1948, 357 priests – one-third of all the priests in Lithuania – were deported to labor camps in Russia and Siberia. One of them, who had been sentenced to 25 years (which meant death, since virtually no one survived more than ten years in the camps) was offered his freedom, one of the largest churches in Vilinius, and 100,000 rubles if he would head a schismatic Lithuanian Catholic church. He refused, and disappears." (Warren H. Carroll, The Rise and Fall of the Communist Revolution, pp. 364-365)(As an aside, this priest could have been spared the horrors of the labor camps if he had simply consented to becoming an Eastern Schismatic. He refused, and suffered horribly. This shows us again the evil of false ecumenism. Post-Vatican II ecumenism, which accepts and praises Eastern Orthodoxy, holds that his martyrdom was pointless.)
Quotedead bodies of Lithuanians after the Soviet Union eliminated those it deemed threats to full takeoverIn 1936, the errors of Russian communism stirred up a revolution and the Spanish Civil War. What resulted was arguably the worst persecution of the Catholic Church in history:"Almost all at once the holocaust of Spain began [in 1936]. The chief target of the revolutionaries was... the Catholic Church. During the next three months, the Catholic priests, religious and laity who were caught in the half of Spain where the Republic retained control, were the victims of the bloodiest persecution the Church has experienced since that of the Roman Emperor Diocletian in the fourth century. In all, 6,549 priests and 283 nuns were martyred, many in the classic circumstances of martyrdom, offered life if they renounced their faith and death if they upheld it." (Warren H. Carroll, The Rise and Fall of the Communist Revolution, p. 285)Hugh Thomas, considered the premier historian of the Spanish Civil War, gives us some details on these martyrdoms:"In Cervera, rosary beads were forced into monks' ears till their eardrums were perforated... Certain persons were burned, and others buried, alive – the latter after being forced to dig their own graves. At Alcazar de San Juan a young man, distinguished for his piety, had his eyes dug out. In that province, Ciudad Real, the crimes were indeed atrocious. A crucifix was forced down the mouth of the mother of two Jesuits. Eight hundred persons were thrown down a mine shaft." (quoted by Carroll, The Rise and Fall of the Communist Revolution, p. 286)That the Spanish persecution was fueled and stirred up by the errors of Russia is beyond question; even some of the "attackers carried red banners with the hammer and sickle." (Carroll, p. 288)One could multiply examples of the good being martyred for pages. For instance, after the Soviet Union's forced "reunification" of the schismatic "Church" with the Greek Catholic Church in 1945, there were countless Ukrainian Catholics who were martyred for their Faith:Cardinal Slipyi: "On April 11, 1945, I was arrested with all the other bishops. Less than a year later, over 800 priests had followed us into captivity. From March 8-10, 1946, the illegal Synod of Lvov took place. Under atheist pressure it proclaimed the 'reunification,' and by the very fact, the official liquidation of our Church was effected by brutal force. The bishops were deported to every corner of the Soviet Union. Almost all of them have died since then, or were killed in captivity... over 1,400 priests and 800 religious, to tens of thousands of the Faithful who in captivity sealed, by the sacrifice of their life, their fidelity to the Pope, the Roman Apostolic See and the Universal Church." (WTAF, Vol. 3, p. 192)It is a fact that doesn't need to be proven any further: the good were martyred in the Soviet Union, in its Communist satellites, and in other countries, such as Spain, where the errors of Russia stirred up bloody persecution. Our Lady's words that the good will be martyred, and various nations will be annihilated, have already been fulfilled.Our Lady: "If they listen to my requests, Russia will be converted and there will be peace. If not she will scatter her errors through the world, provoking wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated. In the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and it will be converted and a certain period of peace will be granted to the world."Sr. Lucy to Fr. Jongen, Feb. 1946: "I think that now Our Lady's words are being fulfilled: 'If this is not done (she had just recalled 'the exact request' of the Blessed Virgin) Russia will spread her errors throughout the world.'" (WTAF, Vol. 3, p. 123)Some also ask: what about the persecution of the Holy Father, who will "have much to suffer"? What is the meaning of this? We find the answer in the aforementioned message of Our Lord to Sr. Lucy from 1940:Our Lord to Sr. Lucy, Oct. 22, 1940: "I will punish the nations for their crimes by means of war, famine and persecution of My Church and this will weigh especially upon My Vicar on earth. His Holiness will obtain an abbreviation of these days of tribulation if he takes heed of My wishes by promulgating the Act of Consecration of the whole world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, with a special mention of Russia." (WTAF, Vol. 2, p. 732)...
Quote from: King Wenceslas on December 02, 2022, 11:25:57 AMNo, Xavier. You are many, many times wrong and you are wrong here. Bishop Athanasius Schneider, a Vatican II Bishop, knows more than Padre Pio? Oy Vey, left is right and up is down.It doesn't take years for the consecration to take effect. It will be days or even less.
Quote from: King Wenceslas on December 01, 2022, 01:20:48 PMQuote from: Xavier on December 01, 2022, 11:34:07 AMGive it time. Let's see where we are on March 25th, 2023 or 2024, let alone 2025. Last time around, after the Implicit or Partial Consecration, of Pope St. John Paul II, on March 25th, 1984, it took 7.9 years (Dec 25th, 1991), for there to be a Partial Fall of Communism in the Soviet Union. Traditional Catholics rightly maintained, for nearly 40 years, that the Complete Consecration had not been done, and this time, the Eastern Catholic Bishops of Are you greater than Padre Pio?QuoteFather John P. Duggan was a chaplain in the US army - he belonged to the 304th Wing of the 15th Air Force and was stationed at Cerignola - a little under an hour's drive from Padre Pio's friary. Father Duggan was a lionhearted priest who at the time was in his 30s. This was in the early 1940s, and Padre Pio was in his 50s, but Pio was not well-known in America and while Father Duggan never witnessed Padre Pio do anything spectacular, he acted as an ambassador for Padre Pio and brought many American servicemen to meet Padre Pio. In this, Father Duggan showed himself to be of great faith and deep humility, he was a priest who was introducing the soldiers under his spiritual care to another priest who he knew could lead these men in higher ways. When Father Duggan asked Padre Pio about the future of the of America and Russia, Pio said plainly, "The Russian people will be converted. Their total conversion will happen very fast. The conversion of the United States will be slow but sure."So, saying it takes years and years or even decades for the effects of the consecration can be seen is absolutely duplicitous and in a certain sense evil. Even satanic. Don't be a worker for satan by spreading misinformation.The REAL consecration will be done after World War III and the Ball of Fire. Then Russia will be converted and convert the United States slowly.
Quote from: Xavier on December 01, 2022, 11:34:07 AMGive it time. Let's see where we are on March 25th, 2023 or 2024, let alone 2025. Last time around, after the Implicit or Partial Consecration, of Pope St. John Paul II, on March 25th, 1984, it took 7.9 years (Dec 25th, 1991), for there to be a Partial Fall of Communism in the Soviet Union. Traditional Catholics rightly maintained, for nearly 40 years, that the Complete Consecration had not been done, and this time, the Eastern Catholic Bishops of
QuoteFather John P. Duggan was a chaplain in the US army - he belonged to the 304th Wing of the 15th Air Force and was stationed at Cerignola - a little under an hour's drive from Padre Pio's friary. Father Duggan was a lionhearted priest who at the time was in his 30s. This was in the early 1940s, and Padre Pio was in his 50s, but Pio was not well-known in America and while Father Duggan never witnessed Padre Pio do anything spectacular, he acted as an ambassador for Padre Pio and brought many American servicemen to meet Padre Pio. In this, Father Duggan showed himself to be of great faith and deep humility, he was a priest who was introducing the soldiers under his spiritual care to another priest who he knew could lead these men in higher ways. When Father Duggan asked Padre Pio about the future of the of America and Russia, Pio said plainly, "The Russian people will be converted. Their total conversion will happen very fast. The conversion of the United States will be slow but sure."