New Forum! For Okie Trads and Beyond

[christulsa]

Its above the belt, but frank and real.  Think debating as friends over a pint.  No cliques or groupthink.

Moderation is very loose here.  I leave it up to posters, for the most part, to hash out their differences.  That grown adults can't come to a resolution over something betrays a fault more about themselves than me, especially since a lot of you are older than me.  We've always had a casual atmosphere here and I try to err on the side of 'open' rather than clamping down on discussion.  When someone is a repeated nuisance and has shown no desire to change, that's not my fault. 

I don't know if the 'clique or groupthink' comment is an attack on me, but I don't really see how this applies here if it is.  We've got a wide array of Catholics posting here, and they all duke it out.  It makes for an exciting atmosphere, and at least an engaging one.  Just a quick perusal of this forum shows that there isn't much groupthink going on here.

No.  Every forum so far has been groupthink with cliques.   Typically not places of real discussion.  More silly petty shit

[OCLittleFlower]

Its above the belt, but frank and real.  Think debating as friends over a pint.  No cliques or groupthink.

Moderation is very loose here.  I leave it up to posters, for the most part, to hash out their differences.  That grown adults can't come to a resolution over something betrays a fault more about themselves than me, especially since a lot of you are older than me.  We've always had a casual atmosphere here and I try to err on the side of 'open' rather than clamping down on discussion.  When someone is a repeated nuisance and has shown no desire to change, that's not my fault. 

I don't know if the 'clique or groupthink' comment is an attack on me, but I don't really see how this applies here if it is.  We've got a wide array of Catholics posting here, and they all duke it out.  It makes for an exciting atmosphere, and at least an engaging one.  Just a quick perusal of this forum shows that there isn't much groupthink going on here.

No.  Every forum so far has been groupthink with cliques.   Typically not places of real discussion.  More silly petty shit

Welcome to the human condition, then. 

[christulsa]

Its above the belt, but frank and real.  Think debating as friends over a pint.  No cliques or groupthink.

Moderation is very loose here.  I leave it up to posters, for the most part, to hash out their differences.  That grown adults can't come to a resolution over something betrays a fault more about themselves than me, especially since a lot of you are older than me.  We've always had a casual atmosphere here and I try to err on the side of 'open' rather than clamping down on discussion.  When someone is a repeated nuisance and has shown no desire to change, that's not my fault. 

I don't know if the 'clique or groupthink' comment is an attack on me, but I don't really see how this applies here if it is.  We've got a wide array of Catholics posting here, and they all duke it out.  It makes for an exciting atmosphere, and at least an engaging one.  Just a quick perusal of this forum shows that there isn't much groupthink going on here.

No.  Every forum so far has been groupthink with cliques.   Typically not places of real discussion.  More silly petty shit

Welcome to the human condition, then. 

No.  "Groupthink" is a post-modern condition.  Its enforced epicurean hedonism.  Group members don't find pleasure in good old fashioned debates.  It frightens them.  The implicit rule is "Don't discuss anything that the majority in the group find offensive."  That rule isnt enforced by the leader, but by the "groupthink."   Its what makes today's social circles artificial, dumbed down, hostile in the real sense of the word, and...boring.  Hedonism doesn't give pleasure, but more pain than pleasure.   

Its why my sense tells me most trads would not join the forums (name the trad forum, in the last 20 years, they mostly devolve into the same dynamic) because they dont like them.   I hear that all the time, from laity and priests.   They often spread serious libel, and become either an inane and obtuse form of interchange, or worse a fight club.

The Okie Traditionalist discussed the history of trad forums recently.  Wouldn't be surprised if there's a followup. 

Me, I've been lurking and posting in the forums since 2000.   Started here March, 2015.   You name it:  FE, AQ, IA, CI, TD, SD.   There are obvious ideological differences.  But folks, I know most of you agree with me about  my points about the forums. 

And I DONT think KK should take this down.  But a few simple rules that aren't seriously enforced make for a place that devolves from it's mission and purpose.   Think Emperors Club.  Rules made for truely lively, fruitful discussion.  Think the opposite, a Juvie classroom, how boring and stupid it is.  When I watch the Emperors club, my senses come alive. When I watch Pretty in Pink , it puts me to sleep.

Btw, OkieTradCats forum wont be competing with forums.  It will actually support Suscipe Domine.  Its just it's own unique hub in the blogosphere.

Since KK removed the URL (for my points about banning Pace for being an "incomprehensible 'nuisance,'")  pm me if you want to join.  Even if it's just a small group, I'm cool with that.  I've never been an either/or kind of thinker.

KK can ban me, he owns the place, but if he does it just demonstrates my points about forums.  Hope you dont KK. 

[SamVanHouten]

ooooooooklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plain

[MundaCorMeum]

ooooooooklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plain

I just chuckled, woke the baby I'm trying to put to sleep, and she chuckled, too.  Thanks 

[Mono no aware]

Chris, you are good and likeable poster, and I offer the following only as polite constructive criticism.  In fact, I myself once made a farewell thread on this forum (I was "blowing this taco stand" for good, so it seemed)—and yet here I am, much to my shame, having returned.  But I was gone, I think, for a period of six months or a year.  A person making a farewell thread has to remove themselves for at least some considerable period of time—even if only to give their nemeses a respite from their antics. 

Unfortunately, your exit and return lasted less than a day.  It was just too brief.  Don't get me wrong, I was glad you reconsidered your decision, but I think perhaps you ought to have made a public retraction.  And if you wanted to couch it as a return via a hologram, then you should've maybe saddled yourself with a constant reminder of it, announcing, "I am merely a phantom now, and will Kaesekopf kindly change my user name to 'Holographic Chris.'"  And you could make your custom title read: "the ghost of christulsa."  It might keep you in the holographic frame of mind.  I myself once changed my user name in a fit of pique, but I'm resolved not to change it back.  Having this idiotic user name is a constant reminder of my own idiocy.  I am a big believer in shame.

Lastly, I think you are being too harsh on SD in calling it an echo chamber.  Such was the opinion of Laramie Hirsch after his ban.  But I think the diversity of posters belies your claim.  You have here both QMR and Miriam_M.  You have Maximilian on one hand, and erin is nice on the other (erin is currently on a ban, but fortunately this is not a perma-ban).  There is Graham and there is Sojourn.  There is Gardener, SJ, naturally, but then there was also, for a brief time, the grandiose magisterial Oriental Origenism of AustrianOrthodoxCatholic (who was never banned in the course of an impressive tenure during which, with the arch and mannered verbosity of a William Faulkner, he embraced half a dozen heterodox theological positions and all but openly denied papal infallibility).  All of the posters I just mentioned are (or were, or will be when they return) valuable members of the forum, and their disagreements make for interesting discussions.

Some of my favorite posters have been banned, and banned in what I consider to have been poor decisions by the moderators.  But that is the administration's prerogative; the lines of acceptability have to been drawn somewhere, and they will inevitably be drawn by mortal and fallible human primates.  (All is subject to subjectivity.  Even your own forum disallows posts "against the faith," but then, who determines what is the faith?  A person in Oklahoma, or Pope Francis in Rome?)  As for Pacebene83, I found him amusing.  He was like the person who takes a cell phone call in a movie theater, and yet hearing his colorful side of the conversation is funny.  I will miss him, but it is no great loss.  Having him banned is not the same thing as the forum being a clique, though.  There is a majority view, to be sure, but opposition is tolerated.  After all, you and I are still here.

[Gardener]

SJ? In what way am I remotely Jesuit?

[Mono no aware]

SJ? In what way am I remotely Jesuit?

Gardener, you are the voice of Jesuitical laxity.  And with all due respect, you are an able and formidable voice in this regard.  Sir, I take off my cap.

[Maximilian]

You have Maximilian on one hand, and erin is nice on the other (erin is currently on a ban, but fortunately this is not a perma-ban). 

I am happy to be juxtaposed with Erin. I wish she would come back. Things are boring around here.

[Chestertonian]

I haven't been banned for incomptehensibility.  But then again I'm not starting any threads on "the solitary vice"

[Lynne]

I haven't been banned for incomptehensibility.  But then again I'm not starting any threads on "the solitary vice"

Thank you for that!

[Kaesekopf]

You have Maximilian on one hand, and erin is nice on the other (erin is currently on a ban, but fortunately this is not a perma-ban). 

I am happy to be juxtaposed with Erin. I wish she would come back. Things are boring around here.

12 days!

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

[christulsa]

Very fair points Pons.  Just chalk up my one month slow departure to what they call in Minnesota the "Minnesota goodbye"   

But I would disagree there aren't cliques.  I think you would agree about the problem of groupthink--when the majority marginalizes the minority--or rather a "dialogue of the deaf' over minority views.  Hence the echochamber reference.  Trads form little circles in which to feel safe.  Someone outside that little circle is perceived as dangerous.  I think this phenomenon in the forums just reflects the underbelly of Traddom. 

The Crisis has struck every nook and cranny of the Catholic Church.  I think we suffer from some degree of ptsd, because of the abuse and trauma we've experienced from the hierarchy, which male's us also form smaller and smaller circles based on differences of opinion between trads.  One more specific idea after another continues to divide.  Hence why a lot of my posts try to cross trad lines and emphasize trad unity.  But also through frank and civil debate.  When the debate devolves into Juvie hall, then I'm out.

- The Holographic Ghost of Christulsa

Banning myself for 3 months to blog more.  But I'll be lurking and checking my PMs.  Mass will be offered for SD later this month.  Peace out.

[Mono no aware]

Very fair points Pons.  Just chalk up my one month slow departure to what they call in Minnesota the "Minnesota goodbye"   

But I would disagree there aren't cliques.  I think you would agree about the problem of groupthink--when the majority marginalizes the minority--or rather a "dialogue of the deaf' over minority views.  Hence the echochamber reference.  Trads form little circles in which to feel safe.  Someone outside that little circle is perceived as dangerous.  I think this phenomenon in the forums just reflects the underbelly of Traddom. 

The Crisis has struck every nook and cranny of the Catholic Church.  I think we suffer from some degree of ptsd, because of the abuse and trauma we've experienced from the hierarchy, which male's us also form smaller and smaller circles based on differences of opinion between trads.  One more specific idea after another continues to divide.  Hence why a lot of my posts try to cross trad lines and emphasize trad unity.  But also through frank and civil debate.  When the debate devolves into Juvie hall, then I'm out.

Well, there certainly are cliques, but as OCLF pointed out, isn't this just the human condition?  I think it goes back much further than the crisis in the Church.  We are a species with an ingrained tribalism, and so in-group / out-group dilineations tend to crop up naturally almost everywhere.  Wherever one draws the line, someone else is bound to be displeased.  While Laramie Hirsch stews over the "echo chamber" problem he perceives here (and maybe he's gotten over it; I haven't visited his blog in a while), there are others who complain that the administration is too lenient and open, tolerating too many undesirables, and wish for Der Kopf to crack down on things like skepticism toward Fatima or the presence of unrepentant atheists like the forum user Kirin.  I think the only solution is to accept that it will always be a challenge to find that perfect sweet spot between a straight-jacketed clique and total anarchy.  Whereas I think the divisions among traditional Catholics are attributable to the fact that the infallible arbiter of things has been repudiated, and so sectarianism was inevitable, as it was with the Protestants and with Islam (although there does remain what QMR has aptly termed a certain "ecumenism of trads [sic]").

I feel awful that you've decided to ban yourself; it was not my intention to get you to do that.  I just wanted to point out why you received a sneer about your non-departure.  I would be delighted if you were to change your user name to "Holographic Chris" and stay on.

[PerEvangelicaDicta]

Hence why a lot of my posts try to cross trad lines and emphasize trad unity.  But also through frank and civil debate.

I've always sensed that effort in your comments, Chris.  It's my mindset.

Kaes, I love your summary of SD moderation, which is absolutely true:

Moderation is very loose here.  I leave it up to posters, for the most part, to hash out their differences.  That grown adults can't come to a resolution over something betrays a fault more about themselves than me, especially since a lot of you are older than me.  We've always had a casual atmosphere here and I try to err on the side of 'open' rather than clamping down on discussion.  When someone is a repeated nuisance and has shown no desire to change, that's not my fault. 

^^This counters the clique mentality.  Certain threads will have what seems to be a groupthink vein, but I believe it's more like attracts like.  The grand diversity of members here usually ensures a challenge to groupthink and/or error.  Sheesh, just look at the recent Fatima debate for evidence.

Ah, if only you'd permit an EENS subforum Kaes lol