Once a Catholic Always a Catholic?

[Baylee]

I see that some believe this, and this might be a big reason why they also believe a heretic pope remains a pope. 

Is this Catholic teaching? Pius XII clearly states that schism, apostasy and heresy severs one from the Church.  How can they still be Catholic then?

Please provide Catholic teaching to support this "Once a Catholic Always a Catholic" view.

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

they also believe a heretic pope remains a pope.

I don't think anyone seriously believes this.

[LausTibiChriste]

they also believe a heretic pope remains a pope.

I don't think anyone seriously believes this.

Haven't had much contact with conservative, JP2 NOers, have we? 

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

Haven't had much contact with conservative, JP2 NOers, have we? 

I don't.  But I don't think any of them actually believe that a heretic can hold the office.  More like, "There's no authority on earth competent to judge and depose the man, and that includes me."

[AlNg]

Pius XII clearly states that schism, apostasy and heresy severs one from the Church.  How can they still be Catholic then?

Please provide Catholic teaching to support this "Once a Catholic Always a Catholic" view.

Supposing a Catholic embraces a heretical belief. Then he can repent and confess his sin. No? A Protestant or a Hindu would not be absolved of their sins if they went to confession.

[LausTibiChriste]

Haven't had much contact with conservative, JP2 NOers, have we? 

I don't.  But I don't think any of them actually believe that a heretic can hold the office.  More like, "There's no authority on earth competent to judge and depose the man, and that includes me."

I know a few who do. And they hold MAs in Theology from CUA to boot.

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

CUA

The original poster had asked about Catholics.

[LausTibiChriste]

CUA

The original poster had asked about Catholics.

I lol'd. Touche.

[Baylee]

Pius XII clearly states that schism, apostasy and heresy severs one from the Church.  How can they still be Catholic then?

Please provide Catholic teaching to support this "Once a Catholic Always a Catholic" view.

Supposing a Catholic embraces a heretical belief. Then he can repent and confess his sin. No? A Protestant or a Hindu would not be absolved of their sins if they went to confession.

Not sure that that necessarily means that the heretic, apostate, or schismatic is not outside of the Church until he/she makes a good confession.  It might just mean that former Catholics are given an easier road in returning than those who were always a different faith. 

Do you have Church writings to support that they are still Catholic prior to making this confession/return to the Church? It seems to me that this confession is not the same as a Catholic going to confession who might have previously been in mortal sin. 

[Miriam_M]

I merely want to add to this discussion that in some traditional apostolates, if a layperson has publicly apostasized, their local priest encourages --but does not demand-- a (renewed) public profession of faith, in which the person repudiates his error in leaving the bosom of Mother Church.  By apostasy, clearly, is not meant "merely" (though grave) obstinate attachment to one or more heretical ideas.  If any of those errors were communicated to others, that would be the grave sin of scandal in addition to heresy.

As we know, apostasy is the complete repudiation of the Catholic faith, a repudiation most often visible in the layperson formally becoming a member of an alternative faith, such as Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, etc., rather than just talking about how "wonderful" or harmless such alternative faiths are.

...a long way of responding to the idea that apostasy is easily rectified by one sacramental confession. Again, some communities of men try to be more conscientious about integrating the sinner back into the fold in a more visible and emphatic way.

[Baylee]

I merely want to add to this discussion that in some traditional apostolates, if a layperson has publicly apostasized, their local priest encourages --but does not demand-- a (renewed) public profession of faith, in which the person repudiates his error in leaving the bosom of Mother Church.  By apostasy, clearly, is not meant "merely" (though grave) obstinate attachment to one or more heretical ideas.  If any of those errors were communicated to others, that would be the grave sin of scandal in addition to heresy.

As we know, apostasy is the complete repudiation of the Catholic faith, a repudiation most often visible in the layperson formally becoming a member of an alternative faith, such as Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, etc., rather than just talking about how "wonderful" or harmless such alternative faiths are.

...a long way of responding to the idea that apostasy is easily rectified by one sacramental confession. Again, some communities of men try to be more conscientious about integrating the sinner back into the fold in a more visible and emphatic way.

But again none of this proves once Catholic always Catholic. Do you have Church teaching that supports this belief you discuss in this post?:

https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=30844.msg618660#msg618660

[Kent]

It has been well established, since even the early Church, that a person is capable of leaving the Church.

[Miriam_M]

It has been well established, since even the early Church, that a person is capable of leaving the Church.

They are capable of it but also culpable for it.

[Miriam_M]

And clearly there are degrees of culpability. Parents who were insincere proxies for an infant whom they never formed in the faith or provided opportunities for formation would bear responsibility, versus the formality baptized individual.

Different situation entirely is a formed Catholic deciding as an adult with an informed intellect to abandon that history, abandon the sacramental life of the church, subvert the indelible mark and power of the sacrament, leave the community into which baptism initiates us, etc.

[Kent]

How are we defining "Catholic?" It seems the best definition to use is that a Catholic is a person who is a member of the Catholic Church. Pius XII tells us that a member is baptized and united to the Church's profession of faith (failing to be both, or being excluded by lawful authority, one is not a member and therefore not a Catholic). Whether a person may be guiltless in their lack of membership is another question. The point is simply that there are actual conditions that must be met to be Catholic, and a person can cease to meet those conditions, thereby leaving the Church.