Muller comes out against the Dubia, and pro-Amoris Laetitia...

Started by 1seeker, January 09, 2017, 06:50:10 AM

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1seeker

https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/01/09/vatican-doctrine-czar-sees-no-need-fraternal-correction-pope/

Muller added, "I am amazed that this became public, essentially constraining the pope to say 'yes' or 'no'. I don't like this."

... Regarding a possible formal correction, which Burke said he was willing to do if the pope continued to refuse to answer the question submitted last September, Muller stated that "it's not possible in this moment, because it doesn't concern a danger for the faith as St. Thomas said."

... According to the German prelate, appointed as the Vatican's doctrinal czar by Benedict XVI, there's no opposition: "On the one hand we have the clear teaching on marriage, and on the other hand the obligation of the Church to worry about these people in difficulties."

Lynne

In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael's Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    "My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you're supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen"

dymphna17

It's kind of like shining a light in a room full of roaches.  They scatter and head for cover.  Has Cardinal Burke or the other 3, given a time frame for the Pope's answser?

QuoteHowever, Muller added, "I am amazed that this became public, essentially constraining the pope to say 'yes' or 'no'. I don't like this."
The letter was intended to be a private affair, but when Pope Francis refused to answer the questions, the cardinals gave it to the press, just a few days before October's consistory for the creation of new cardinals.
?
I adore Thee O Christ, and I bless Thee, because by Thy holy cross Thou hast redeemed the world!

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph save souls!

Of course I wear jeans, "The tornadoes can make dresses immodest." RSC

"Don't waste time in your life trying to get even with your enemies. The grave is a tremendous equalizer. Six weeks after you all are dead, you'll look pretty much the same. Let the Lord take care of those whom you think have harmed you. All you have to do is love and forgive. Try to forget and leave all else to the Master."– Mother Angelica

Gerard

How is the Church obligated to "worry"? 

The Church doesn't worry, the Church provides clarity as solutions for difficulties brought on by sin.

Muller describes the Church Useless, not the Church Militant. 


Elizabeth

Professional, crafty politicians who have learnt how to use the media to lie about what a Dubia is?  Counting on the utterly dumbed-down and corrupt Hillary/Pizzagate supporters to go along with them?

Took the time to watch The Shocking Truth of Why Pope Benedict Resigned(Unedited Version) by a N.O. type of nice production on YouTube.   Not shocking to us, but sickening nonetheless.  Just sickening.  (In the comments of Elizabeth Yore's No Mercy For Sex Abuse Victims at the Remnant.)

Prayerful

Quote from: Elizabeth on January 09, 2017, 12:08:24 PM
Professional, crafty politicians who have learnt how to use the media to lie about what a Dubia is?  Counting on the utterly dumbed-down and corrupt Hillary/Pizzagate supporters to go along with them?

Took the time to watch The Shocking Truth of Why Pope Benedict Resigned(Unedited Version) by a N.O. type of nice production on YouTube.   Not shocking to us, but sickening nonetheless.  Just sickening.  (In the comments of Elizabeth Yore's No Mercy For Sex Abuse Victims at the Remnant.)

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztisTKy2KTE[/yt]

Seems mostly about Maciel and the Institute of Works. They have some besuited Fr Doyle complaining about clericalism, doubling down on the errors of the past fifty years. It does lay out the story of Maciel well enough, but Randy Engel's Rite of Sodomy is far better on the early story, including his early and unexplained seminary expulsion, and later how he was suspended in 1940s by the uncle bishop who had overseeing his private training outside the seminary, for the molestation of two boys. Pope Francis seems to want to revert to the Novus Ordo bad old days of protecting the paedo priest, so opening it with him as some sort of hero is a bit off. However, the film is a few years old.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.

martin88nyc

"These things I have spoken to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you shall have distress: but have confidence, I have overcome the world." John 16:33

Antoninus

Some people I know were shocked and thought Mueller was a lion of orthodoxy. I knew he wrote some dubious theology in the past, so I'm not surprised.

christulsa

Kind of reminds me of Cardinal Ottaviani, who was also the head of the "Holy Office."  Similar to how Ottaviani publicly opposed religious liberty during the Council, Mueller publicly opposed Communion for the Divorced and Remarried (CFDR) during the Synod.  Later, Ottaviani would embrace religious liberty after the Council, I suppose out of obedience, and today Mueller is backing down, saying CFDR isn't a "danger for the faith," I suppose also out of obedience.

BUT, the Vatican at least answered ++Lefebvre's doctrinal dubia on religious liberty.  So far they will not do so for The Four's dubia--which was sent not just to the pope to be answered, but to Cardinal Mueller at the CDF.

Silence gives consent.  If Mueller/CDF won't answer the dubia and uphold the traditional doctrine, then they practically side with the heresy and schism started under Francis.

Prayerful

Quote from: christulsa on January 09, 2017, 04:14:19 PM
Kind of reminds me of Cardinal Ottaviani, who was also the head of the "Holy Office."  Similar to how Ottaviani publicly opposed religious liberty during the Council, Mueller publicly opposed Communion for the Divorced and Remarried (CFDR) during the Synod.  Later, Ottaviani would embrace religious liberty after the Council, I suppose out of obedience, and today Mueller is backing down, saying CFDR isn't a "danger for the faith," I suppose also out of obedience.

BUT, the Vatican at least answered ++Lefebvre's doctrinal dubia on religious liberty.  So far they will not do so for The Four's dubia--which was sent not just to the pope to be answered, but to Cardinal Mueller at the CDF.

Silence gives consent.  If Mueller/CDF won't answer the dubia and uphold the traditional doctrine, then they practically side with the heresy and schism started under Francis.

Cardinal Ottaviani was also soothed over the New Mass by some rewriting of the General Instruction. Mueller sold himself cheaply, presumably hoping not to be reduced to a cipher like Cardinal Sarah, as the clarifications offered seem to suggest error or worse heresy that goes against words of Our Lord on marriage. Ignoring centuries of Magisterium is to be taken for granted nowadays, but AL in operation seems to hold Our Lord to be 'rigid'.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.

Heinrich

It is spelled Müller. The diacritical marks above the vowel make it a non synonymous vowel, i.e."U" does not equal "Ü."  For example, fuhren (foor en)is a past participle of the verb fahren(to drive; to go), whilst führen(fyer en, or fryoor en) is the infinitive "to lead." Many other examples abound. But this suffices. Please, for the sake of Indo-European, Teutonic purity, use correct letters.

Ich danke Euch.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Prayerful

Quote from: Heinrich on January 09, 2017, 06:54:35 PM
It is spelled Müller. The diacritical marks above the vowel make it a non synonymous vowel, i.e."U" does not equal "Ü."  For example, fuhren (foor en)is a past participle of the verb fahren(to drive; to go), whilst führen(fyer en, or fryoor en) is the infinitive "to lead." Many other examples abound. But this suffices. Please, for the sake of Indo-European, Teutonic purity, use correct letters.

Ich danke Euch.

'E' doing the job of diacritical marks for German names just seems to be common practice, and I cannot type unless I copy the name (but likely there is a shortcut). I usually avoid using 'e' for diacritical marks, so I'll find out the shortcut.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.

Heinrich

Quote from: Prayerful on January 09, 2017, 07:06:53 PM
Quote from: Heinrich on January 09, 2017, 06:54:35 PM
It is spelled Müller. The diacritical marks above the vowel make it a non synonymous vowel, i.e."U" does not equal "Ü."  For example, fuhren (foor en)is a past participle of the verb fahren(to drive; to go), whilst führen(fyer en, or fryoor en) is the infinitive "to lead." Many other examples abound. But this suffices. Please, for the sake of Indo-European, Teutonic purity, use correct letters.

Ich danke Euch.

'E' doing the job of diacritical marks for German names just seems to be common practice, and I cannot type unless I copy the name (but likely there is a shortcut). I usually avoid using 'e' for diacritical marks, so I'll find out the shortcut.

Using the "E" is sufficient.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Aquila

Quote from: 1seeker on January 09, 2017, 06:50:10 AM
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/01/09/vatican-doctrine-czar-sees-no-need-fraternal-correction-pope/

Muller added, "I am amazed that this became public, essentially constraining the pope to say 'yes' or 'no'. I don't like this."


Well, heaven forbid that he be forced to say "Yes, Yes, or No, No". I mean, Who would possibly expect that?
Extra SSPX Nulla Salus.
Dogmatic Sedeplenist.

Xavier

Sad to see, one could have expected more from Mueller, Pell etc given what they said before; but the orthodox Cardinals missed a trick here, just like the traditional and conservative prelates at Vatican II, they should have insisted before even beginning this evil Sin-od that all present swear to believe and uphold all the dogmas that the Church has solemnly taught for all time, starting with Trent's, "Can. 7. If anyone says that the Church errs in that she taught and teaches that in accordance with evangelical and apostolic doctrine the bond of matrimony cannot be dissolved by reason of adultery on the part of one of the parties, and that both, or even the innocent party who gave no occasion for adultery, cannot contract another marriage during the lifetime of the other, and that he is guilty of adultery who, having put away the adulteress, shall marry another, and she also who, having put away the adulterer, shall marry another,[13] let him be anathema." Had they started with dogma, and had all present including the Pope, sworn an oath under pain of anathema to firmly and unswervingly hold to what had been handed down, as Popes and Councils traditionally did, it would be different; but they started out wrong from the beginning, now the Cardinals who still personally believe rightly about matrimony are in a weak position, they don't want to be accused of "disobedience", as if the Pope can just arbitrarily invent anything - even though he hasn't stated anything other than continuing a lax permission through a strained interpretation - and everybody should follow his say-so, something Vatican I expressly denied when it defined Papal infallibility "For the Holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by his revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by his assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith transmitted by the Apostles"

St. Lucia stated the Devil's final Battle would involve a terrible attack on the sacrament of matrimony, as did the Blessed Mother at Quito. "In it we find written: the final battle between the Lord and the reign of Satan will be about marriage and the family. Don't be afraid, she added, because anyone who operates for the sanctity of marriage and the family will always be contended and opposed in every way, because this is the decisive issue. And then she concluded: however, Our Lady has already crushed its head." http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.in/2015/06/cardinal-what-sister-lucia-told-me.html?m=1 The Blessed Mother had said, "As for the Sacrament of Matrimony, which symbolizes the union of Christ with His Church, it will be attacked and profaned in the fullest sense of the word. Masonry, which will then be in power, will enact iniquitous laws with the objective of doing away with this Sacrament, making it easy for everyone to live in sin, encouraging the procreation of illegitimate children born without the blessing of the Church. The Christian spirit will rapidly decay, extinguishing the precious light of Faith until it reaches the point that there will be an almost total and general corruption of customs"

If nothing else, Burke, Mueller et al should have the sense and the strength to know and do one thing at least - whether in 5 years or in 10, there will be another conclave, if we are serious about doing our best with God's aid to ensure orthodoxy prevails in the Church, they should at least seek to form a conservative majority in the college of Cardinals that can give us a strong Pope after Pope Francis. A Church headed by Cardinal Burke would be vastly different than the one headed by Cardinal Bergoglio is. The Holy Father is making a grave mistake in permitting what he is doing. If Kasper is to be believed, the Pope is said to believe that most marriages are invalid today because the couple doesn't understand the concept of irrevocable and lifelong consent. What should be done to address the issue is proper catechesis that imparts a firm faith in the sacramental reality of matrimony, not lax and liberal easy annulments and "catholic divorce" that gravely offends God and only exacerbates the problem.
Bible verses on walking blamelessly with God, after being forgiven from our former sins. Some verses here: https://dailyverses.net/blameless

"[2] He that walketh without blemish, and worketh justice:[3] He that speaketh truth in his heart, who hath not used deceit in his tongue: Nor hath done evil to his neighbour: nor taken up a reproach against his neighbours.(Psalm 14)

"[2] For in many things we all offend. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man."(James 3)

"[14] And do ye all things without murmurings and hesitations; [15] That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world." (Phil 2:14-15)