Is evolution sin?

[Quaremerepulisti]

So you create an experiment sans the rest of the universe.  Two orbs connected via two rods connected  at the center of gravity to a strain gage.  On each orb is a small rocket.  You fire the rockets.

Are you arguing that the strain gage will not move? 

If so, where did the energy go?  You just violated the conservation of energy.

Try this again with the orbs, and the rocket fuel, having zero mass.

[james03]

Then there would be nothing there, by definition.

[james03]

And that rotating mass can result in centrifugal and Coriolis forces at the center of the shell has been experimentally proven (Lense-Thirring effect).

Equally distributed mass in the shell?  What direction would the force be?  I do remember angular momentum being weird, though the force was aligned with the axis of rotation.  Anyhow, that mass imposes gravitational forces I do not dispute.

Again, there is no difference between being stationary and experiencing a g-force due to gravitational pull, and rotating around (say, in a satellite with artificial gravity).

Non sequitur. Agreed, there is no difference in EFFECT.  But I can say the same as an iron object accelerated via magnetic forces, or the force of a propellant.  I can get them both to accelerate at 32.2 ft/sec2.  Does this mean there is no difference between the forces?

[Quaremerepulisti]

Then there would be nothing there, by definition.

Eh, no, a photon has zero mass and yet is not "nothing".  But true, I should have said zero inertia.

[Quaremerepulisti]

The point is that you cannot know whether you are rotating, or accelerating, relative to "absolute space" (assuming there is such a thing), merely by measuring force in your reference frame.

Equally distributed mass in the shell?  What direction would the force be?  I do remember angular momentum being weird, though the force was aligned with the axis of rotation.  Anyhow, that mass imposes gravitational forces I do not dispute.

The centrifugal force is away from the center; the Coriolis force is proportional to omega cross v.  The forces are the exact same as if you were rotating in the center of the shell.  In other words, you can't know you are rotating just because you measure centrifugal and Coriolis forces.  These could be the result of other masses rotating around you.

Non sequitur. Agreed, there is no difference in EFFECT.  But I can say the same as an iron object accelerated via magnetic forces, or the force of a propellant.  I can get them both to accelerate at 32.2 ft/sec2.  Does this mean there is no difference between the forces?

No, but again, you can't know you are accelerating just because you can measure a force.

[james03]

No, but again, you can't know you are accelerating just because you can measure a force.

Possibly somewhat agree.

Case 1:  Put large masses close to the orbs.  Mass 1 by orb 1 and Mass 2 by orb 2.  Mass 1 would also pull on orb 2, cancelling the centrifugal force, but at a great distance, so the net effect would be centrifugal force showing on the strain gage.  I believe that is right, so in a normal universe, strain on the gage could be indicating large masses exerting gravitation forces instead of rotation.

Case 2:  Measure initial stain.  Fire rockets.  Increase in strain shows acceleration.

Case 3:  Only objects is the orb system.  Strain indicates rotation.

[Quaremerepulisti]

No, but again, you can't know you are accelerating just because you can measure a force.

Possibly somewhat agree.

Case 1:  Put large masses close to the orbs.  Mass 1 by orb 1 and Mass 2 by orb 2.  Mass 1 would also pull on orb 2, cancelling the centrifugal force, but at a great distance, so the net effect would be centrifugal force showing on the strain gage.  I believe that is right, so in a normal universe, strain on the gage could be indicating large masses exerting gravitation forces instead of rotation.

Case 2:  Measure initial stain.  Fire rockets.  Increase in strain shows acceleration.

Well of course you know you've fired rockets, but the increased strain could also result from Mass 1 and Mass 2 moving closer to the orbs.

Case 3:  Only objects is the orb system.  Strain indicates rotation.

If these are the only objects, the only forces can be the gravitational pull of the masses towards each other, which would exist even in the absence of the string.  Therefore, it is impossible that any strain could be measured.  You'd need something else to make the system rotate faster, but that something else doesn't exist if the only objects are the orb system.

[james03]

There would be the mass and velocity of the jet fuel (pressure), mostly the velocity.  The remnants of the fuel would be ejected into space.