Accepting Apology

[maryslittlegarden]

I have found over time that one of the best remedies for a problem with a person who is troublesome, is to pray for their conversion and salvation. It helps to alleviate the harm and bother that they cause us, and at times it helps to reconcile them or even get them out of one's life.

This... I have found that it helps to soothe my soul a great deal.  Edited to add: especially when I can't change their behaviour

[Instaurare omnia]

If the culprit apologizes, we accept as a matter of mercy and charity in the moment and let it go at that. (If this frees the person to consider that the infraction was as much against God as it was against us, all the better for that person's soul.) Accepting an apology entails neither an outpouring of unwarranted trust nor an offer of renewed friendship. Unless it's a case of familial authority, we don't owe them anything more. It just wipes the balance with regard to the other person, and it self-checks the sin of pride in insisting that we need to litigate wrongs against us until we're finally satisfied. Humanist-modernists talk about "boundaries" but that avoids the bigger spiritual issue.

Forgiveness isn't a social transaction, it's something we owe to God. Forgiveness means that we avow to forego personal vengeance. (Vengeance is distinct from justice, but that's another conversation.) It also means that we refuse to consent to wishful malice when those thoughts surely pop up. Again, it's not about the other person, it's about setting ourselves on the right path no matter what nonsense we encounter from day to day.

PS: If the above doesn't convince, then consider that refusing to accept an apology can be an open invitation to whichever demons had been plaguing the apologizer. Where does that put you now?

[awkward customer]

Accepting an apology entails neither an outpouring of unwarranted trust nor an offer of renewed friendship.

Does accepting an apology entail forgiveness though?  It seems not necessarily, if I'm reading this thread properly.

The general opinion here is that accepting an apology equates with forgiveness but thataccepting the apology doesn't mean you have  to renew friendship or forget the offence.  In fact it's been posted above that we must forgive but that doesn't mean we have to forget or trust the person again.

Sorry, but I don't think that's forgiveness.  God forgives and forgets when the necessary obligations have been met.  Accepting an apology is mere politeness if the intention to forget is not there.

St Luke is quite clear.  If the offender has done penance, you forgive them, and that must include forgetting or it's not forgiveness.  If you truly have forgiven, then surely you must forget.  Otherwise it's merely accepting an apology which is just  polite. 

Obviously the penance will depend on what the person has done.  Did they eat the last cake that you were looking forward to , or did they steal your savings?

[Instaurare omnia]

from awkward customer: Does accepting an apology entail forgiveness though?  It seems not necessarily, if I'm reading this thread properly. [...] God forgives and forgets when the necessary obligations have been met.  Accepting an apology is mere politeness if the intention to forget is not there.

Two separate matters/actions. Accepting the apology speaks to the other person as a creature of God, not so much to what they did. (If people do so out of "politeness" then that's guile and possible fodder reserved for future ill will.) Same to say out loud, "I forgive you." If spoken honestly, then in that moment there must be some genuine intent at least to begin to forgive.

Yet the interaction between forgiving and forgetting is tricky. We're human, so it's inherently difficult to forget. Demons take advantage of this weakness, but they only win if we willfully persist in resentment, ruminating, grudges, etc., albeit silent and never expressed or acted upon. So we take care to shut it down as soon as we catch ourselves indulging. It takes time and prayer, including asking God to purify our memories. It's not good if we forget what happened but still retain a vague hatred for that person. (Conversely, accurate recall with no trace of resentment wouldn't be a bad thing necessarily.) When we truly forgive, it's before God, not before the person forgiven. (NB: those lines in the Pater Noster.)
 
According to Fr. Ripperger, God doesn't "forget", but repentance means that He won't hold it against us. (Source: @12:35 in the video that Julio posted in General Catholic Discussion this afternoon.) As for the wrongdoer's Penance, that's up to a priest and none of our business, nor does it seem that we can expect restitution as a condition of forgiveness.

[awkward customer]

Until the time of the Reformation no theologian ever thought of denying the necessity of contrition for the forgiveness of sin. But with the coming of Luther and his doctrine of justification by faith alone the absolute necessity of contrition was excluded as by a natural consequence...... Catholic writers have always taught the necessity of contrition for the forgiveness of sin, and they have insisted that such necessity arises (a) from the very nature of repentance as well as (b) from the positive command of God. (a) 'They point out that the sentence of Christ in Luke, xiii, 5, is final: "Except you do penance", etc., and from the Fathers they cite passages such as the following from Cyprian, "De Lapsis", no. 32: "Do penance in full, give proof of the sorrow that comes from a grieving and lamenting soul. . . they who do away with repentance for sin, close the door to satisfaction."

https://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=3324

Is Protestantism the source of the confusion between accepting an apology and forgiveness, I wonder?

Because merely accepting an apology is not forgiveness.

If someone apologises and obviously has no remorse or intention of changing then by all means accept their apology.  But this has nothing to do with forgiveness.

Conflating the two and demanding forgiveness simply because someone has apologised doesn't correspond to any Catholic teaching I am familiar with.

[Instaurare omnia]

^^^ Yes, it's the Church that demands contrition for sacramental forgiveness of sin. It's not you or I demanding contrition in a material sense or out of some temporal idea of correct manners. Big difference. I don't think that Protestantism is responsible for the confusion, except in those places where Catholics are so surrounded by Prots that it contaminates our outlook. Rather, it's simple human pride to forget that all our thoughts and actions are answerable to God. People can bicker all they want about mundane offenses, but that's being worldly. Note too that we can forgive someone we have no chance of ever meeting again (including someone who's no longer alive) even though that person never apologized and never made amends. 

[awkward customer]

Yes.  The Church demands contrition for sacramental forgiveness of sins.  But we shouldn't?  And I'm not talking about trivial offences here, but about more serious and likely long-term harm caused by one individual to another. 

The overwhelming demand today is for unconditional forgiveness.  It doesn't matter what someone has done or whether or not they are sorry or have even acknowledged responsibility for what they did.  The victim is always required to forgive, thereby placing an additional burden on them that they do not deserve.

I'm sorry but I think there's confusion in terms which are very common today and, yes, the Protestant Revolt has helped bring this about.  If the person responsible for the offence will not take responsibility for what they have done and displays no contrition or remorse, then letting go of the offence and praying for the person's repentance is about as good as it gets.

A psychopath who apologises is lying. 

[Instaurare omnia]

^^^ We can only demand temporal justice, but then it gets into a civil matter, not a religious one. Then it gets into a whole pile of liberal-masonic premises about right and wrong that I have no patience for anymore. So it doesn't interest me to go there in this thread, except to say that secularly imposed "unconditional forgiveness" is bogus and a sugar-coated concession to evil, and what the Protestant Reformation really enabled was modernist relativism that has no place in good old rigid restorationist Catholicism. Let other people be confused if they want to. I can't fix them. And I don't hold my breath that statist "jurisprudence" will ensure justice of any sort either.

Let God take care of the lying psychopaths in God's own time. I've forgiven enough of them in my interior being because I don't want that long-ago baggage dragging me down anymore. They'll never know I've forgiven them because I burnt those bridges. Even the few I still put up with at a distance don't need to know the state of my soul. That's between me and God.

[Michael Wilson]

We have a duty to forgive others who have offended us, we even condition God's own forgiveness of our sins on the degree that we forgive others (Our Father) and Our Lord told us that the measure that we use on others, will be used on us. Forgetting, doesn't mean getting amnesia as to the offense, but not holding the offense as unforgiven i.e. As an "active file" between the offender and the offendee. 

[Julio]

^^Yes the holding of the grudge is never peaceful. I agree that it is our duty to forgive. In fact even them not asking for forgiveness we ought to forgive their sins being sinners like them. It is only God to whom begging for forgiveness is necessary because He is pure with very simple constitution of love as giver.

It does not mean however that forgiving must be expressly shown for we need prudence for the sinner like us must feel the consequence of the wrongful act, otherwise we become culpable of acceding towards that demeanor of sinfulness. But to forgive to my understanding of which is an obligation of every sinner having carried with us our fallen nature. It is certainly hard but can be done.

[awkward customer]

What if God doesn't forgive the person?

God requires contrition and penance before He forgives. But we have to forgive unconditionally?  We have to forgive someone who has caused us harm even if they don't ask to be forgiven and show no remorse for what they have done?   

Since this contradiction is too much for my brain to understand, I think I will stick with 'letting go'. Pray for the person, have faith that God will deal with the person and walk away with the determination to 'let go' of anger, resentment and any desire for revenge.  Not to be confused with forgiveness.

[awkward customer]

mistake

[diaduit]

What if God doesn't forgive the person?

God requires contrition and penance before He forgives. But we have to forgive unconditionally?  We have to forgive someone who has caused us harm even if they don't ask to be forgiven and show no remorse for what they have done?   

Since this contradiction is too much for my brain to understand, I think I will stick with 'letting go'. Pray for the person, have faith that God will deal with the person and walk away with the determination to 'let go' of anger, resentment and any desire for revenge.  Not to be confused with forgiveness.

What if one has no longing for revenge or even justice but can't let go with what was done to them? I guess offer up, which is my go to for when I don't know.

[awkward customer]

What if one has no longing for revenge or even justice but can't let go with what was done to them? I guess offer up, which is my go to for when I don't know.

I'm not sure why anyone is under any obligation to 'let go' of the distress caused by what was done to them.  Letting go of the desire for revenge or even justice is certainly desirable but this is easy compared to letting go of the personal devastation that abusive behaviour can cause.

When I've been in this position, when all else has failed including endless prayer and 'offering it up', I've turned to God and Our Lady, our Heavenly Father and Mother, admitted to them that the distress, anger, despair at what was done to me won't go away, in the hope of receiving the consolation and support that good parents would offer to a child in that position.  This has involved some childish behaviours on my part, I must admit.  It's almost as if I'm exposing myself completely to God, warts and all, which He already knows about anyway.  And I've experienced great consolation at such times.

I think there's a quite modern distaste for strong emotions and a tendency to swallow deep distress and cover it up by any means.  My own experience is that since trusting God and Our Lady enough to show them  the level of my distress in all its less than admirable manifestations, I have never felt closer to Them.

Don't be afraid of being a frightened and bewildered child in the presence of God your Father. And especially not in the Presence of Our Lady your Mother.  They will understand.

   

[Julio]

I stated begging for forgiveness is necessary before one can be forgiven by God. Jesus showed that while He was crucified when Dimas asked for that forgiveness. However, the omnipotence of God was also manifested when He stated, "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do." On the context however of the OP on "accepting apology," a sinner needs to pray to attain forgiveness thus the truth of asking it from God. Whether or not God shall forgive the person is up to Him. No one can dictate to God what He must do, but we can certainly pray to Him.

We need to purify our soul the way St. Francis of Assisi did it. Even the Angels were confused of who he was because he was able to express that loving ways of God by being forgiving. When Jesus said, "be perfect" it means it can be done and it is doable because of His grace and not because of our sheer ability for we are incapable of saving our soul on our own.