+Williamson On Racial Hierarchy

[Anon Chap]

I recently came across this fascinating bit:

"Any inequality today is a horror. For the Catholic Church, it's not at all a horror. God has designed everything unequal, practically everything: the flowers, the animals, the plants, the mountains, the nations, the peoples, the races, the sexes, the individuals, everything in God's creation is unequal. What God plans is a great variety, and an order in the variety, with some things higher and some things lower. And St. Paul says in the Epistle to the Romans, 'Don't start questioning God on why he put this lower and put that higher.' It's like a building, that stone is lower than that stone and that stone is higher.... Compare blacks with whites, broadly speaking, blacks will be superior in some things and whites will be superior in others. But generally speaking, the blacks are lower down on the wall and the whites are meant to be higher up on the wall. That's just the way it is. That's the reality. When the whites stopped doing what they should be doing, which is leading the blacks, then...."

-Bp. Richard Williamson (2008 lecture on The Sillon, No. 3 in the Stockholm Conferences 2008 audio series at the St. Marcel Initiative website)

Because I believe that Europeans are white precisely because Europe was divinely ordained to spread the holiness of Christ throughout the world, I'd like to further pursue this line of thinking in traditional Catholic writings, whether they be in encyclical form or whatever. What do you recommend I read?

[Elizabeth]

I don't know about all that.  The maid of my grandparents, a Black Catholic mother of 14 was instrumental in my love of Catholicism.  She was an incredibly holy, humble and loving soul. 

I recommend not worrying about white superiority.  After all, whites have nearly wiped themselves out with contracepting and aborting.  That's not particularly superior IMO.


 

[GloriaPatri]

This is a pretty idiotic thing for Bp. Williamson to say, especially since it has no basis in fact. If one looks at the genetics and anatomy of any and every distinct ethnic group you'll find very few differences between them. Certainly no difference so extreme as to support the notion that Europeans are superior to other racial groups. China, India, and even the Middle East and Mesoamerica all produced great civilizations. That Europe came to dominate on a global scale is more so an accident of history rather than some necessity of biology.

[Chestertonian]

this is one of +W's pet causes and he cites no scriptural or magisterial teaching.  the sort of thinking I'd prefer to stay far away from.  Our Lord was not a white European

[JubilateDeo]

I'm guessing there aren't a lot of black Williamson devotees......

[zork]

Or Jewish ones.

[Flora]

No race is inherently superior to another. However, it's entirely scientific (according to the evolution narrative) to believe that certain races, on average, are more intelligent or physically capable in certain areas than others. Just because there are few genetic or anatomical differences between the ethnicities doesn't mean those differences aren't significant. Humans and chimpanzees also have very few genetic differences, yet the results speak for themselves. If you actually believe in evolution, the whole idea of there being no significant biological differences in the races so as to cause one race/ethnicity to be, on average, more intelligent or more physically capable in a certain area than another race/ethnicity is ridiculous. Adoption studies and IQ tests back this up. This is one of the many areas that "objective" academic types refuse to accept because it's politically incorrect.

[Ulrich Von Lichtenstein]

It is indeed a great shame Neil Degrasse Tyson never pursued his natural athleticism and entering into a long and prosperous career as a basketballer. He really could have made something of himself, pursuant to his natural talents, rather than living a life of mediocrity in a field he was not genetically suited to...

Something I find interesting, on a more serious note, about some of the arguments which arise when these topics come up, is that people who make arguments based on genetic traits tend to ignore a huge amount of Mendel's laws - for example, the tendency that the pursuit of genetic homogeneity over long term subsequent generations has towards inbred depression, and the necessity of hybridizing, stabilizing and only then returning to back-crossing in the interest of longevity and stable, robust health. Some stabilized landrace genetics can survive long term generational progeny, but generally speaking the wider the gene pool the healthier the subject. I am, of course, condensing what is a rather large point of discussion, but my point remains.

[Graham]

This is not one of Bp. Williamson's "pet causes," in fact I for one never knew he thought like this and ive I'll followed him relatively closely for six years. I'm glad to see it, though, he hit the nail on the head.

[Flora]

It is indeed a great shame Neil Degrasse Tyson never pursued his natural athleticism and entering into a long and prosperous career as a basketballer. He really could have made something of himself, pursuant to his natural talents, rather than living a life of mediocrity in a field he was not genetically suited to...

Something I find interesting, on a more serious note, about some of the arguments which arise when these topics come up, is that people who make arguments based on genetic traits tend to ignore a huge amount of Mendel's laws - for example, the tendency that the pursuit of genetic homogeneity over long term subsequent generations has towards inbred depression, and the necessity of hybridizing, stabilizing and only then returning to back-crossing in the interest of longevity and stable, robust health. Some stabilized landrace genetics can survive long term generational progeny, but generally speaking the wider the gene pool the healthier the subject. I am, of course, condensing what is a rather large point of discussion, but my point remains.

Except you're knocking down a straw man. It's not that every single person of a certain race is more intelligent or physically capable than every single person of another race...or that a certain race is "genetically suited" to something. It's that ON AVERAGE there are indeed significant differences that cannot be denied. The average black man is taller than the average Asian man. This means that ON AVERAGE the black man will be better at sports where tallness gives a significant advantage. This doesn't mean that Yao Ming or whoever cannot be a great basketball player. I agree with your second point though, from an evolutionary standpoint.

[Ulrich Von Lichtenstein]

It is indeed a great shame Neil Degrasse Tyson never pursued his natural athleticism and entering into a long and prosperous career as a basketballer. He really could have made something of himself, pursuant to his natural talents, rather than living a life of mediocrity in a field he was not genetically suited to...

Something I find interesting, on a more serious note, about some of the arguments which arise when these topics come up, is that people who make arguments based on genetic traits tend to ignore a huge amount of Mendel's laws - for example, the tendency that the pursuit of genetic homogeneity over long term subsequent generations has towards inbred depression, and the necessity of hybridizing, stabilizing and only then returning to back-crossing in the interest of longevity and stable, robust health. Some stabilized landrace genetics can survive long term generational progeny, but generally speaking the wider the gene pool the healthier the subject. I am, of course, condensing what is a rather large point of discussion, but my point remains.

Except you're knocking down a straw man. It's not that every single person of a certain race is more intelligent or physically capable than every single person of another race...or that a certain race is "genetically suited" to something. It's that ON AVERAGE there are indeed significant differences that cannot be denied. The average black man is taller than the average Asian man. This means that ON AVERAGE the black man will be better at sports where tallness gives a significant advantage. This doesn't mean that Yao Ming or whoever cannot be a great basketball player. I agree with your second point though, from an evolutionary standpoint.

There is no straw man, I simply made a joke. The concept I was joking about it usually only found within Trad circles as a subtext, it is more open in other circles. Within Traddom what we find more of is insinuation that Western culture and the Roman Rite is inherently more salvific than, and superior in every way to, say, the Ethiopic Rite or Chaldean Rite and that the latter should be abolished in favour of the former. I do not know whether His Excellency advocates this or not, to be fair, and am not directing this at him in any way.

I know many people, of course, who would not receive treatment from a black doctor, for example, because they do not believe they hold the intellectual capacity necessary to execute these duties sufficiently, particularly when compared to the more enlightened races. Personally I spent many years traveling the world far and wide, and based on my own experiences do not hold this to be the case. But, opinions are like... well, let us say navels, yes? Everybody has one.

[Flora]

It is indeed a great shame Neil Degrasse Tyson never pursued his natural athleticism and entering into a long and prosperous career as a basketballer. He really could have made something of himself, pursuant to his natural talents, rather than living a life of mediocrity in a field he was not genetically suited to...

Something I find interesting, on a more serious note, about some of the arguments which arise when these topics come up, is that people who make arguments based on genetic traits tend to ignore a huge amount of Mendel's laws - for example, the tendency that the pursuit of genetic homogeneity over long term subsequent generations has towards inbred depression, and the necessity of hybridizing, stabilizing and only then returning to back-crossing in the interest of longevity and stable, robust health. Some stabilized landrace genetics can survive long term generational progeny, but generally speaking the wider the gene pool the healthier the subject. I am, of course, condensing what is a rather large point of discussion, but my point remains.

Except you're knocking down a straw man. It's not that every single person of a certain race is more intelligent or physically capable than every single person of another race...or that a certain race is "genetically suited" to something. It's that ON AVERAGE there are indeed significant differences that cannot be denied. The average black man is taller than the average Asian man. This means that ON AVERAGE the black man will be better at sports where tallness gives a significant advantage. This doesn't mean that Yao Ming or whoever cannot be a great basketball player. I agree with your second point though, from an evolutionary standpoint.

There is no straw man, I simply made a joke. The concept I was joking about it usually only found within Trad circles as a subtext, it is more open in other circles. Within Traddom what we find more of is insinuation that Western culture and the Roman Rite is inherently more salvific than, and superior in every way to, say, the Ethiopic Rite or Chaldean Rite and that the latter should be abolished in favour of the former. I do not know whether His Excellency advocates this or not, to be fair, and am not directing this at him in any way.

I know many people, of course, who would not receive treatment from a black doctor, for example, because they do not believe they hold the intellectual capacity necessary to execute these duties sufficiently, particularly when compared to the more enlightened races. Personally I spent many years traveling the world far and wide, and based on my own experiences do not hold this to be the case. But, opinions are like... well, let us say navels, yes? Everybody has one.

Ah, I see. I thought you were responding to my post. I would disagree with those people as well. There are many great black doctors, Dr. Ben Carson for example. In any case, I admire much more a dumb holy Catholic than an intellectually superior pagan regardless of race. I just find a lot of so-called "objective" academic types to be dishonest in that they throw out data and studies that don't affirm their worldview while simultaneously claiming the moral high ground on being scientific and objective.

[Ulrich Von Lichtenstein]

Ah, I see. I thought you were responding to my post. I would disagree with those people as well. There are many great black doctors, Dr. Ben Carson for example. In any case, I admire much more a dumb holy Catholic than an intellectually superior pagan regardless of race. I just find a lot of so-called "objective" academic types to be dishonest in that they throw out data and studies that don't affirm their worldview while simultaneously claiming the moral high ground on being scientific and objective.

Absolutely. If the survival of the fittest, natural evolution model is to be believed than some races are simply more or less evolved than others. But they would never admit this aspect to their theory, despite it being an indisputable conclusion!

I have heard some interesting "anti-miscegenation" theories from Traditional Catholics over the years, of course, also. My favourite was that the races were separated at the fall of the Tower of Babel and interracial breeding is a blasphemous act because it defies this separation... Some people, man. I don't know what to make of them.

[Anon Chap]

...he cites no scriptural or magisterial teaching.

Yet surely such teachings exist. These are what I'm interested in being pointed to.

[Ulrich Von Lichtenstein]

...he cites no scriptural or magisterial teaching.

Yet surely such teachings exist. These are what I'm interested in being pointed to.

Orwellians 17:45 "And verily do I say unto you, all men were created equal ⁴⁶but some are more equal than others"