Suscipe Domine Traditional Catholic Forum

The Church Courtyard => Traditional Catholic Discussion => Topic started by: Jman123 on October 23, 2018, 08:25:18 AM

Title: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Jman123 on October 23, 2018, 08:25:18 AM
I'm noticing that people from smaller sspx chapels are moving to places like St Mary's KS. What do you think of this?
Are there possibly any advantages to raising a family in St Mary's as opposed to a smaller chapel of the SSPX?
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Jacob on October 23, 2018, 09:33:44 AM
I'm not SSPX.  With that in mind:

1. Living in an actual community of like-minded Catholics.
2. Having access to an proper, sane, rational Catholic school.
3. Easy access to priests, not living near a chapel where the priest is not resident.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Lynne on October 23, 2018, 11:57:33 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 23, 2018, 09:33:44 AM
I'm not SSPX.  With that in mind:

1. Living in an actual community of like-minded Catholics.
2. Having access to an proper, sane, rational Catholic school.
3. Easy access to priests, not living near a chapel where the priest is not resident.

Yes, yes, and yes.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Heinrich on October 23, 2018, 07:00:32 PM
I was just south of St. Mary's Saturday, in Maple Hill. I was hoping to meet up with our resident Charmmeister, Michael Wilson. Ahead of schedule(not much sleep in MO) and he was at Mass. Driving round Maple Hill, one realizes that this area has grace. While not in St. Mary's, yet close. All those Masses and Rosaries!
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: MundaCorMeum on October 24, 2018, 07:30:09 AM
Quoteour resident Charmmeister, Michael Wilson.

I like it!  ;D
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Michael Wilson on October 24, 2018, 11:43:49 AM
We just missed connecting! Drat!
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Heinrich on October 24, 2018, 08:40:15 PM
Quote from: Michael Wilson on October 24, 2018, 11:43:49 AM
We just missed connecting! Drat!

From Maple Hill/St. Mary's to my home is the most arduous part of the drive from Knoxville. I was terribly tired when we spoke whilst I was at the truck stop and knew the pain was coming. About the state line and I was needing to stop again.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Miriam_M on October 25, 2018, 01:08:37 AM
Quote from: Heinrich on October 23, 2018, 07:00:32 PM

our resident Charmmeister, Michael Wilson.


I can't settle for just thanking Munda.  I must affirm myself how adorable that is.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: ThreeKings on October 26, 2018, 09:50:55 AM
Quote from: Jman123 on October 23, 2018, 08:25:18 AM
I'm noticing that people from smaller sspx chapels are moving to places like St Mary's KS. What do you think of this?
Are there possibly any advantages to raising a family in St Mary's as opposed to a smaller chapel of the SSPX?

Avoid the place like the plague.
I have been traditional Catholic 35 years.
St. Mary's is the worst bunch of hypocritical, sunday-only "Catholics " I have ever met.  The cliques are unbelievable.
This is not only my opinion but many of my friends who moved there.  I sent my son to high school there for one year.  He learned bad language, was exposed to the worst bullying, learned the internet and pornography, had absolutely no privacy at all, and was fed moldy food.  Neither the dorm master, teachers, or priests cared a rip to fix anything.

Just because it says "catholic" does not mean it is.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Heinrich on October 27, 2018, 09:39:57 AM
Quote from: ThreeKings on October 26, 2018, 09:50:55 AM
Quote from: Jman123 on October 23, 2018, 08:25:18 AM
I'm noticing that people from smaller sspx chapels are moving to places like St Mary's KS. What do you think of this?
Are there possibly any advantages to raising a family in St Mary's as opposed to a smaller chapel of the SSPX?

Avoid the place like the plague.
I have been traditional Catholic 35 years.
St. Mary's is the worst bunch of hypocritical, sunday-only "Catholics " I have ever met.  The cliques are unbelievable.
This is not only my opinion but many of my friends who moved there.  I sent my son to high school there for one year.  He learned bad language, was exposed to the worst bullying, learned the internet and pornography, had absolutely no privacy at all, and was fed moldy food.  Neither the dorm master, teachers, or priests cared a rip to fix anything.

Just because it says "catholic" does not mean it is.

WHOA! Hello. I don't have a dog in this but if it is so bad how is it able to maintain?
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Michael Wilson on October 27, 2018, 12:46:40 PM
Re. Horrible place St. Mary's: This isn't the Garden of Eden; there are many good and sincere practicing Catholics who are really doing a wonderful job either as parents, religious, or children. But there are also some that are not so great, who's manner of living isn't very different from what is considered "normal" today. However the wickedness of the few should not blind us to the virtue of the majority. 
The problem with any trad school is that parents who have not done a good job, send their children to the schools, hoping that the school will "straighten out" their child. It doesn't always happen, but the school should not be judged by the 'bad apples' that are always there, and as my parents told me, always have been. 
I also have a niece that has lived most of her life here in St. Marys and who did not have a positive experience from attending the SSPX academy because of the behavior of her fellow students. She is now married and is home schooling her children instead of sending them to the Academy, for that reason. Parents should be aware that there is no "perfect place" to either live or school to send their children to. Basically we all have to endeavor to lead as virtuous lives as possible and as parents, make sure to raise our children in the same manner; and not leave it to others to do so. 
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Traditionallyruralmom on October 30, 2018, 12:41:03 PM
Quote from: Michael Wilson on October 27, 2018, 12:46:40 PM
Re. Horrible place St. Mary's: This isn't the Garden of Eden; there are many good and sincere practicing Catholics who are really doing a wonderful job either as parents, religious, or children. But there are also some that are not so great, who's manner of living isn't very different from what is considered "normal" today. However the wickedness of the few should not blind us to the virtue of the majority. 
The problem with any trad school is that parents who have not done a good job, send their children to the schools, hoping that the school will "straighten out" their child. It doesn't always happen, but the school should not be judged by the 'bad apples' that are always there, and as my parents told me, always have been. 
I also have a niece that has lived most of her life here in St. Marys and who did not have a positive experience from attending the SSPX academy because of the behavior of her fellow students. She is now married and is home schooling her children instead of sending them to the Academy, for that reason. Parents should be aware that there is no "perfect place" to either live or school to send their children to. Basically we all have to endeavor to lead as virtuous lives as possible and as parents, make sure to raise our children in the same manner; and not leave it to others to do so.

I find your comment interesting, and convicts me in my thoughts that home education is still the best option.  An SSPX priest wrote in Catholic Family News this month about education and said there will be a part 2 addressing "Homeschooling" (in quotation marks) and a parents duty to send their child to a Catholic school if they have the option.  They really toot the horn of the schools.    I cant help but think that in todays world of craziness we live in, its even hard for traddy Catholics to keep a reign on their children's affections and habits if they are gone 8 plus hours a day even at a traddy school. Not to mention that among traddy Catholics the standards of what is acceptable is all over the board.

I guess thats a long winded way to say that even if I lived in Traddy Town USA I would probably still homeschool
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Michael Wilson on October 30, 2018, 01:51:41 PM
I agree with you TRM. If at all possible Home School.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Gardener on October 30, 2018, 02:18:09 PM
I think people need to keep in mind fallen human nature.

How many people read the writings of saints like St. Alphonsous Liguori and he's lambasting bad morals, bad company, bad culture? Well, those were Catholics doing those things in a culture which only had Catholics in them, for the most part.

We must, must, must be careful of utopianism.

Don't get me wrong... a Catholic culture full of Catholics, even nominal or bad ones, is better than the creepy, Willy Wonka-like hell-in-a-handbasket horror ride we so often experience in a culture that has devolved beyond our grandparents' recognition. But the reality remains the same: mankind is fallen.

Growing up as a Protestant, I went to a private Christian school for 9th and 10th grade. It was, at least once, internationally famous as a place that missionaries sent their children. The man who ran the school was an alumni. The staff was really doing their best. But ya know what? I witnessed the following during my time there:

extremely foul language

sexual activity (in class!!!!!) between a boyfriend/girlfriend while the teacher had her back turned; sexual activity by students as spoken about in contexts outside of class

plenty of freely spoken doubts about the Bible, God, the reality of morality as taught in the Scriptures, milquetoast defense of things -- all by students and teachers alike.

toleration by staff of dissenting opinions that led not a few of those students to essentially maintain only an external Christianity

inclusive admittance of at least one self-proclaimed Wiccan witch as a student and she was allowed to wear jewelry which was decidedly pagan in nature

etc.

And this was at a school where the theological opinion was Fundamentalist Protestant! Imagine what SuperHappyRockbandFun Church schools are like!

Now, you might say, "Ah, but not in St. Mary's!" Oh yeah, I guarantee they're there, cus those things have NOTHING to do with Protestants or Catholics, but the reality of fallen man.

If you want to control what your kids see, learn, etc., you really need to homeschool if at all possible. You cannot guarantee that a good environment is actually good. Appearances are deceiving, and it's myopic to think that if one just lifts the veil they will only see Angelus recitations and family rosaries. Porn, spousal abuse, horrible language, etc. Guarantee it's there.

Don't be fooled: people suck.

But, Michael Wilson is there, so it's got that going for it. But he sucks too. (just less than I do) :D
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: MundaCorMeum on October 30, 2018, 05:05:33 PM
I agree, Gardener.  While I think homeschooling certainly does stack the deck in our favor, for my own family, it is definitely NOT. A magic bullet.  For my children or anyone else's.  I pray that I don't ruin all these tiny humans every.single.day.  it's something I lose lots of sleep over.  I beg for God's grace, pray for their purity, and form them as best I can (as does my husband).  At the end of the day, whether we outsource our children's education or keep it in house, if our children remain with their Faith intact through out their lives, it'll be in spite of me; not because of me.  It's frightening.  Many days I wish I could just throw in the towel, because I know I am utterly sub-par for this monumental task.  But, this is the task God gave me, and no one else can do it but me (under the guidance of my husband).  All I can do is give my five loaves and two fish and beg God to bless and multiply them.

Also, these are my top two rules of parenting:
1) never seek affirmation from your children
2) never put anything past your  children....yes, they are capable... even your precious little angel

(Bonus rules 3 and 4:. Don't argue with toddlers; never wake a sleeping baby or a pregnant woman  :lol:)

ETA:. I think Michael said it best when he said, "This isn't the Garden of Eden". Excellent reminder!
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Maximilian on October 30, 2018, 06:34:20 PM
Quote from: MundaCorMeum on October 30, 2018, 05:05:33 PM

Also, these are my top two rules of parenting:

2) never put anything past your  children....yes, they are capable... even your precious little angel

Many excellent points in your post. I would like to call attention to this one in particular.

Remember, you child is someone else's peer! When you complain about "peer pressure" having a negative effect on your child, it is helpful to recall that your child is the peer setting a bad example for other people's children.

Parents always tend to believe that their child is the little angel being led astray by other people's children, but the reality is so often just the opposite.

The poster complaining about the bad influence his son received at St. Mary's, I wonder just how innocent was his son? Nothing personal about that poster, but the math just doesn't add up here -- how can everyone else be so wicked and only his son be an island of angelic piety?

It is the nature of society, the nature of life, that no one is perfect. Those who withdraw to the Ozark mountains to be free of worldly taint, just how pure will they find themselves out there in the wilds?

I have witnessed scenarios like this being played out in real life. "Kick out the diseased sheep before it infects the rest of the flock." Pretty soon there are no sheep left in the flock. Except perhaps maybe 1 or 2 children of parents who are so blind that they still believe that their little lamb is the only one not subject to original sin.

I know one traditional Catholic mother who kicked out virtually an entire traditional Catholic school because none of the other children were pure enough for her darling daughter. She's not aware that right this minute her daughter has a crush on a guy with a felony juvenile record.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Maximilian on October 30, 2018, 06:48:28 PM
Quote from: MundaCorMeum on October 30, 2018, 05:05:33 PM

While I think homeschooling certainly does stack the deck in our favor, for my own family, it is definitely NOT. A magic bullet.  For my children or anyone else's. 

Another excellent point in your post.

I've seen so many children show up at traditional Catholic schools in 5th or 6th grade, virtually illiterate and innumerate. In the parents' obsession to protect the children from sin, they have protected them from life, including such aspects of life as reading and the times tables.

The only thing phonier than the statistics for NFP are the statistics for home schooling. Working-class parents who try to home-school is almost a certainty for educational failure. But I've seen many children with college-educated parents who struggle with the basics of reading and writing and arithmetic.

Home-schooling almost inevitably become no-schooling. Chaos reigns.

The family is not a perfect society (in the technical sense). "Swiss Family Robinson" is a false utopia. A single family is not capable of providing all the things necessary for survival -- neither the survival of the family itself, nor the survival of the race.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Traditionallyruralmom on October 31, 2018, 08:53:06 AM
Quote from: Maximilian on October 30, 2018, 06:48:28 PM
Quote from: MundaCorMeum on October 30, 2018, 05:05:33 PM

While I think homeschooling certainly does stack the deck in our favor, for my own family, it is definitely NOT. A magic bullet.  For my children or anyone else's. 

Another excellent point in your post.

I've seen so many children show up at traditional Catholic schools in 5th or 6th grade, virtually illiterate and innumerate. In the parents' obsession to protect the children from sin, they have protected them from life, including such aspects of life as reading and the times tables.

The only thing phonier than the statistics for NFP are the statistics for home schooling. Working-class parents who try to home-school is almost a certainty for educational failure. But I've seen many children with college-educated parents who struggle with the basics of reading and writing and arithmetic.

Home-schooling almost inevitably become no-schooling. Chaos reigns.

The family is not a perfect society (in the technical sense). "Swiss Family Robinson" is a false utopia. A single family is not capable of providing all the things necessary for survival -- neither the survival of the family itself, nor the survival of the race.
I think that no homeschooler who has been in the occupation for a long time (15 years here) will still think that unto themselves they can do it all....We know that that mentality leads to miserable children, or weird "holier than thou, I can't socalize with you and you should not socialize with him" behavior (seen both  :()

But homeschooling by a family that realistically tries to find many outlets for their childrens development outside the home (sports, clubs, homeschool groups...YES, even with friendly protestants...ect) and uses the modern resources to outsource the education when ever they can, IF they need to...(online classes, DVD math programs ect) makes for a well rounded child.

Please dont paint Homeschooling with such a broad negative brush :)
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Traditionallyruralmom on October 31, 2018, 09:26:17 AM
I went to 12 years of public school and I dont know my times tables  :cheeseheadbeer:
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Elizabeth on October 31, 2018, 09:51:17 AM
Quote from: Traditionallyruralmom on October 31, 2018, 09:26:17 AM
I went to 12 years of public school and I dont know my times tables  :cheeseheadbeer:
:cheeseheadbeer: :cheeseheadbeer: :cheeseheadbeer: :cheeseheadbeer: :cheeseheadbeer:
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Heinrich on October 31, 2018, 09:59:06 AM
Quote from: Traditionallyruralmom on October 31, 2018, 08:53:06 AM
Quote from: Maximilian on October 30, 2018, 06:48:28 PM
Quote from: MundaCorMeum on October 30, 2018, 05:05:33 PM

While I think homeschooling certainly does stack the deck in our favor, for my own family, it is definitely NOT. A magic bullet.  For my children or anyone else's. 

Another excellent point in your post.

I've seen so many children show up at traditional Catholic schools in 5th or 6th grade, virtually illiterate and innumerate. In the parents' obsession to protect the children from sin, they have protected them from life, including such aspects of life as reading and the times tables.

The only thing phonier than the statistics for NFP are the statistics for home schooling. Working-class parents who try to home-school is almost a certainty for educational failure. But I've seen many children with college-educated parents who struggle with the basics of reading and writing and arithmetic.

Home-schooling almost inevitably become no-schooling. Chaos reigns.

The family is not a perfect society (in the technical sense). "Swiss Family Robinson" is a false utopia. A single family is not capable of providing all the things necessary for survival -- neither the survival of the family itself, nor the survival of the race.
I think that no homeschooler who has been in the occupation for a long time (15 years here) will still think that unto themselves they can do it all....We know that that mentality leads to miserable children, or weird "holier than thou, I can't socalize with you and you should not socialize with him" behavior (seen both  :()

But homeschooling by a family that realistically tries to find many outlets for their childrens development outside the home (sports, clubs, homeschool groups...YES, even with friendly protestants...ect) and uses the modern resources to outsource the education when ever they can, IF they need to...(online classes, DVD math programs ect) makes for a well rounded child.

Please dont paint Homeschooling with such a broad negative brush :)

Common sense stuff, here. One can raise kids to be agreeable to society at large while homeschooling all the while maintaining Grace. In my years now two traditional parishes, I have seen the good, bad and ugly when it comes to homeschooling.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Maximilian on October 31, 2018, 10:14:53 AM
Quote from: Traditionallyruralmom on October 31, 2018, 08:53:06 AM

But homeschooling by a family that realistically tries to find many outlets for their childrens development outside the home (sports, clubs, homeschool groups...YES, even with friendly protestants...ect) and uses the modern resources to outsource the education when ever they can, IF they need to...(online classes, DVD math programs ect) makes for a well rounded child.

Yes, homeschooling CAN succeed in the cases of individual families. And for some families there aren't any other options, so they just have to do their best.

But we need to look as well at the broader picture of a Catholic society. Can we have a community of traditional Catholics where half the children are failing to get a basic education? 

Quote from: Traditionallyruralmom on October 31, 2018, 08:53:06 AM

Please dont paint Homeschooling with such a broad negative brush :)

It was traditional Catholic schooling that was being painted with a broad negative brush in this thread. Homeschooling was being portrayed as some sort of utopia in comparison.

I've had enough experience with traditional Catholic schools where parents finally give up on homeschooling and drop off their illiterate middle-school students and expect the school to compensate for years of educational neglect.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Maximilian on October 31, 2018, 10:18:42 AM
Quote from: Traditionallyruralmom on October 31, 2018, 09:26:17 AM

I went to 12 years of public school and I dont know my times tables  :cheeseheadbeer:

The problem is when people like that are making educational decisions for vulnerable children. It's okay to be uneducated, as long as one is humble enough to recognize that decisions on issues that require education need to be made by people who are qualified.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Heinrich on October 31, 2018, 10:34:08 AM
Quote from: Maximilian on October 31, 2018, 10:18:42 AM
Quote from: Traditionallyruralmom on October 31, 2018, 09:26:17 AM

I went to 12 years of public school and I dont know my times tables  :cheeseheadbeer:

The problem is when people like that are making educational decisions for vulnerable children. It's okay to be uneducated, as long as one is humble enough to recognize that decisions on issues that require education need to be made by people who are qualified.

About twelve or so years ago a homeschooling super mom got snarky with me, an English teacher of many years, as were discussing the natural progression of composition, i.e. writing skills in youngsters. Kinda put me off. Later on, her ten year old son was attempting to read an article in a hunting magazine; he couldn't do it. By that, I mean he could sound out words at a molasses-on-a-cold-plate pace, but clearly was unable to create meaning for himself. One encounters dip stickiness like this in homeschool circles. I want to find my daughter's "List O' Words" that I had her table in a spiral notebook. I think the Krakauer entries take up a third. I pretty much hammered reading and writing on themes and Catechism. My daughter is now a stay at home, but became a very successful and happy veterinary technician. It is like the RN for animals. 
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Maximilian on October 31, 2018, 10:43:30 AM
Quote from: Heinrich on October 31, 2018, 10:34:08 AM

About twelve or so years ago a homeschooling super mom got snarky with me, an English teacher of many years, as were discussing the natural progression of composition, i.e. writing skills in youngsters. Kinda put me off. Later on, her ten year old son was attempting to read an article in a hunting magazine; he couldn't do it. By that, I mean he could sound out words at a molasses-on-a-cold-plate pace, but clearly was unable to create meaning for himself. One encounters dip stickiness like this in homeschool circles.

One of the issues which you highlight here is the descending social scale. The mother with a very good education whose child is unable to read. As has been discussed on other threads, this is increasingly widespread.

I think it's even worse in the traditional Protestant community. They never had much of an intellectual tradition to begin with, so when they move off-grid and decide to homeschool, they can fall pretty low.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Heinrich on October 31, 2018, 11:05:22 AM
Quote from: Maximilian on October 31, 2018, 10:43:30 AM
The mother with a very good education whose child is unable to read.

This mother most assuredly had not "a very good education." Just whacky hubris. Needless to say, we are no longer acquaintances with this family. No idea whatever happened to their blossoming Tesla Aquinas superstars. As I said, this was some administrations ago.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Maximilian on October 31, 2018, 11:42:19 AM
Quote from: Heinrich on October 31, 2018, 11:05:22 AM

This mother most assuredly had not "a very good education."

Ah, I see, the "English teacher of many years" was you and not the "homeschooling super mom."
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: MundaCorMeum on October 31, 2018, 12:19:02 PM
Quote from: Maximilian on October 30, 2018, 06:48:28 PM
Quote from: MundaCorMeum on October 30, 2018, 05:05:33 PM

While I think homeschooling certainly does stack the deck in our favor, for my own family, it is definitely NOT. A magic bullet.  For my children or anyone else's. 

Another excellent point in your post.

I've seen so many children show up at traditional Catholic schools in 5th or 6th grade, virtually illiterate and innumerate. In the parents' obsession to protect the children from sin, they have protected them from life, including such aspects of life as reading and the times tables.

The only thing phonier than the statistics for NFP are the statistics for home schooling. Working-class parents who try to home-school is almost a certainty for educational failure. But I've seen many children with college-educated parents who struggle with the basics of reading and writing and arithmetic.

Home-schooling almost inevitably become no-schooling. Chaos reigns.

The family is not a perfect society (in the technical sense). "Swiss Family Robinson" is a false utopia. A single family is not capable of providing all the things necessary for survival -- neither the survival of the family itself, nor the survival of the race.


While I still stand by everything I said, this is not my personal anecdotal experiences with homeschooling at all.  The majority of what I've seen in my local homeschool community is very positive.  It is, in fact, what drew me to homeschool in the first place. 
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: MundaCorMeum on October 31, 2018, 12:37:55 PM
Quote from: Heinrich on October 31, 2018, 09:59:06 AM
Quote from: Traditionallyruralmom on October 31, 2018, 08:53:06 AM
Quote from: Maximilian on October 30, 2018, 06:48:28 PM
Quote from: MundaCorMeum on October 30, 2018, 05:05:33 PM

While I think homeschooling certainly does stack the deck in our favor, for my own family, it is definitely NOT. A magic bullet.  For my children or anyone else's. 

Another excellent point in your post.

I've seen so many children show up at traditional Catholic schools in 5th or 6th grade, virtually illiterate and innumerate. In the parents' obsession to protect the children from sin, they have protected them from life, including such aspects of life as reading and the times tables.

The only thing phonier than the statistics for NFP are the statistics for home schooling. Working-class parents who try to home-school is almost a certainty for educational failure. But I've seen many children with college-educated parents who struggle with the basics of reading and writing and arithmetic.

Home-schooling almost inevitably become no-schooling. Chaos reigns.

The family is not a perfect society (in the technical sense). "Swiss Family Robinson" is a false utopia. A single family is not capable of providing all the things necessary for survival -- neither the survival of the family itself, nor the survival of the race.
I think that no homeschooler who has been in the occupation for a long time (15 years here) will still think that unto themselves they can do it all....We know that that mentality leads to miserable children, or weird "holier than thou, I can't socalize with you and you should not socialize with him" behavior (seen both  :()

But homeschooling by a family that realistically tries to find many outlets for their childrens development outside the home (sports, clubs, homeschool groups...YES, even with friendly protestants...ect) and uses the modern resources to outsource the education when ever they can, IF they need to...(online classes, DVD math programs ect) makes for a well rounded child.

Please dont paint Homeschooling with such a broad negative brush :)

Common sense stuff, here. One can raise kids to be agreeable to society at large while homeschooling all the while maintaining Grace. In my years now two traditional parishes, I have seen the good, bad and ugly when it comes to homeschooling.


Indeed.  And, honestly, I think that if children turn out to be the way Max is painting them to be, then they're likely going to turn out that way no matter what.  I think it was in another thread that another poster said that family culture, more than how you educate your child, has an impact on your children more than anything else.  In other words, there is good, bad, and ugly in the Homeschool World.  There is good, bad, and ugly in the Traditional Catholic School world.  There is good, bad, and ugly in the Public School World.  It's more what goes on at home - whether they are there all day long or not - that really forms the child, and if they will rebel against the parents' principles or not.

I think two of the biggest keys in raising children is consistency and balance.  If you never let your child do anything for fear of the world, they're going to rebel....even if they are at the best Catholic school that money can afford.  It's like holding sand in your hand...squeeze it and it falls out; hold it gently, with palms open, and it stays with you.  Give your children the tools they need to fight the world, but don't expose them to so much of the world (in an effort to combat it) that they are allured by it's glitter and false promises of happiness. This can be done in both a homeschool setting AND a brick and mortar setting.  PRAY, PRAY, and PRAY some more for God to show you the right path for your child's education, and He absolutely will.  Whether or not homeschooling is the ideal or not, doesn't really matter, if that is the path God is calling you to.  I have zero doubt that we are meant to homeschool our children.  I am at complete and utter peace about it (as is my husband).  That doesn't make it easy or without challenge.  That doesn't make it the right choice for EVERY family.  It just means this is very likely God's plan for our family at this point in time.  It could very well change, though I doubt it, and that is why we pray often to know God's Will.  "Lord, we just want to do what is holy and best for our family's salvation.  Show us how to do that, we beg of You."   

I have mixed feelings about whether or not homeschooling is "the" ideal...in today's day and age, I think it probably is, given the disaster that society is; from a bigger world view, it probably isn't.  I think the ideal of ideals would be a cooperative education between priests/nuns as teachers; supported, scaffolded, and encouraged by parents at home. 
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Traditionallyruralmom on October 31, 2018, 02:45:33 PM
Quote from: Maximilian on October 31, 2018, 10:18:42 AM
Quote from: Traditionallyruralmom on October 31, 2018, 09:26:17 AM

I went to 12 years of public school and I dont know my times tables  :cheeseheadbeer:

The problem is when people like that are making educational decisions for vulnerable children. It's okay to be uneducated, as long as one is humble enough to recognize that decisions on issues that require education need to be made by people who are qualified.
I am "people like that" because I don't know my times tables, and am therefore uneducated?  Or am i misunderstanding what you are saying?
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Gardener on October 31, 2018, 04:41:24 PM
The key is competency and resource diversification.

Competency: The parents must ask themselves what they are competent in -- they should be able to handle those subjects to their level of competency.

Resources: One cannot count on one resource if that resource isn't working for the child. My wife and her sisters went through several homeschool curriculum programs, and it wasn't necessarily the case that what worked for one worked for the others.

Incompetence: Anything in which one is not competent, or when competency is exceeded by demand, should not result in merely pawning a child off on a resource that is "supposed" to be good. It's impossible at that point to gauge where the child is failing due to misunderstanding the concept, or merely the resource's method of information conveyance. It is at this level a parent must either source tutoring elsewhere (such as a homeschool co-op), or turn to professional help.

When it comes to mathematics, YouTube is an amazing resource because there are tons of lessons online which use different methods. The proof will be in the pudding of correct answers.

Moreover, in all things it is necessary to diversify application of knowledge gained. For example, one may introduce their child to basic computer programming. Early experience with it should revolve around things at which they should be at a master level. Examples might include basic arithmetic programs that they code themselves. One could even write a program that outputs basic Latin declensions of words. They will know their program works when it outputs the correct declension. In other words, they would have to know the right answer to know the code works. This gives them confidence in their knowledge as applied, and that they used it to create. That last point is absolutely key. Otherwise they will simply see education as a drone factory.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Traditionallyruralmom on October 31, 2018, 09:53:33 PM
I have heard it said, and find it to be true, that homeschooling mothers must see themselves as the child who brought the loaves and the fishes to Jesus.  We must present Him with our measly qualifications, time and energy and trust that He will give us the graces to do the work He has given us to do.  I trust that small Traditional Catholic schools with meager resources also feel this way and find it true.
In my experience, if mom and dad are pretty stable, the home is one built on love and mom does her best and never forgets to beg God to give her wisdom and knowledge to know what methods or resources are best...God always comes through.  Yes, there are learning curves for teacher mom, and the oldest is usually the guinea pig...but God makes up for what we lack if we do it for Him out of love.   :)
St Joseph of Cupertino, to stupid to do more than tend the barn.... The Cure of Ars, to dumb to learn latin... St Therese the Little Flower said hard reading would "break her head"...I take comfort in these saints.  I may not be a genius in math, but I'm smart enough to know how to enroll my child in a live online math course, or buy a Teaching Textbooks CD  ;)
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Elizabeth on November 03, 2018, 05:51:54 PM
Quote from: Traditionallyruralmom on October 31, 2018, 09:53:33 PM

I may not be a genius in math,

..but you are in a number of interesting areas of home life, motherhood, overall education and formation of kids, so...

:toth:
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: ABlaine on November 29, 2018, 09:33:23 AM
So, not to wade into this topic too much, but I have to ask.

How on earth does homeschooling work and do you ever feel that it is a trade-off or limiting in some way?

When I look at it, you have one person, generally a stay-at-home mother, responsible for a number of children at different levels in all required subjects. While she is presumably more interested in their success and has more time to give to each child than a teacher might, she is almost certainly objectively less educated in every subject compared to a teacher that specializes in his subject and has actually had years of experience teaching the same thing to children.  So not only is more actual knowledge at the child's disposal, but the means of transmitting knowledge is more practiced.

I'm wondering because I'm 25, I'm likely to marry my girlfriend in a year or two and we've been talking about this on and off. My girlfriend is a year and a half younger than me and finishing medical school this year. I studied Geochemistry and the classical languages in university. Between the two of us, even with our backgrounds, I don't think we could offer the same caliber of education that a normal academic path could. I graduated high school with years of Latin and Greek and speaking French (and to a lesser extent, German). Even if I were capable of working full time with my future kids, I just don't think I could hold a candle to someone that taught any one of these languages for a profession. We could probably do chemistry and biology between the two of us, but again, I don't think it could possibly be of the same caliber even if we did have the time.

Finally, I've spent the last few years in France (though I'm elsewhere now) and my girlfriend is German. In Germany homeschooling is straight up illegal (they have to make sure that they can inject all the children with huge doses of guilt, can't have them miss out on that) and in France it is legal with annual checkups by the state but you're essentially screwed for your baccalauréat... which means good luck getting into any quality university. Many people that I knew that went to SSPX or other trad schools in France generally transferred to a different school for their last two years in order to prepare for their bac. Trad schools generally have good pass rates, but they're not exactly filling up elite (or even decent) universities.

Like I see the romantic appeal of learning at home, as that's how it's been for the overwhelming majority of people until modern times, but it seems so... limiting?
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Daniel on November 29, 2018, 10:02:48 AM
Quote from: ABlaine on November 29, 2018, 09:33:23 AM
So not only is more actual knowledge at the child's disposal, but the means of transmitting knowledge is more practiced.
I agree about the practical experience, but I don't agree about the theoretical knowledge. Because the course material for elementary school and middle school isn't all that hard (you don't need to be a mathematician or physicist to teach 5th grade algebra...), and I think the idea is that by the time the kid reaches late middle school you should already have taught the kid good study skills and study habits, such that the kid will be more independent and more capable of figuring out the material on his own, by simply reading his textbook and other sources, without as much need for a formal teacher. (Better off than in public schools where the students get free As and never bother to read their textbooks.) Though I was not homeschooled nor do I have children.

edit - Also with homeschooling, you have more control over the actual material and teaching methods. Many kids in public schools don't get much exposure to the classics, for example. And in college I took a course on how to teach STEM to K-12 students, and the techniques they were teaching us to use are pretty horrible. The approach is entirely inductive/hands-on, which isn't bad in itself (especially for younger children), but it lacks balance. And everything's about gamification and makerspace. No wonder the kids can't focus on their studies.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Traditionallyruralmom on November 29, 2018, 12:08:11 PM
Quote from: ABlaine on November 29, 2018, 09:33:23 AM
How on earth does homeschooling work and do you ever feel that it is a trade-off or limiting in some way?

she is almost certainly objectively less educated in every subject compared to a teacher that specializes in his subject and has actually had years of experience teaching the same thing to children.  So not only is more actual knowledge at the child's disposal, but the means of transmitting knowledge is more practiced.

I just don't think I could hold a candle to someone that taught any one of these languages for a profession. We could probably do chemistry and biology between the two of us, but again, I don't think it could possibly be of the same caliber even if we did have the time.


Like I see the romantic appeal of learning at home, as that's how it's been for the overwhelming majority of people until modern times, but it seems so... limiting?

You might like to look into options like this.  You have live professional teachers, classmates, and homework that needs to be turned into someone other than mom with grading and feedback.
https://queenofheavenacademy.org/ (https://queenofheavenacademy.org/)
https://homeschoolconnectionsonline.com/ (https://homeschoolconnectionsonline.com/)
https://kolbe.org/index.php/courses/online/ (https://kolbe.org/index.php/courses/online/)
https://www.memoriapressacademy.com/ (https://www.memoriapressacademy.com/) (not Catholic, but very good, I use lots of their things in my homeschool)

There may be others rigorous Catholic classical or online programs that I am not aware of.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: QuaeriteDominum on December 14, 2018, 07:44:39 AM
Quote from: Jman123 on October 23, 2018, 08:25:18 AM
I'm noticing that people from smaller sspx chapels are moving to places like St Mary's KS. What do you think of this?
Are there possibly any advantages to raising a family in St Mary's as opposed to a smaller chapel of the SSPX?

To get back on track to the subject of the OP, we moved our family from a beautiful home in a picturesque Mid-Atlantic town to a place (not St. Mary's) that had a Traditional Mass center. We traded an hour commute to a Traditional Mass Chapel to a 3 minute commute to a Traditional church and school (K-12), 3 Masses per day, daily Confession, Eucharistic Adoration, etc.  Everything one would require to raise a family in true Catholicism.  This move was not easy and it took a year to secure a job but it was, by far in hindsight, the best move we could have made.

Saints primarily reside in heaven and if you look to move to a place where they live on earth, you will be disappointed.  So I would not move to St. Mary's or any other place with a concentration of Trads just to coexist with a community of fervent, dedicated, Traditional Catholics because at some level, you will become disillusioned and disappointed. St. Mary's is not the Borg or Stepford - it is just people with a fallen nature seeking to find something they are lacking. Or, they were born there and are not necessarily there by choice. As in anywhere, you will find Catholics at both ends of the 'dedicated' spectrum. There are over 800 children in the school at St. Mary's and, surprisingly, each one is different. I know of families that have children who are priests and nuns and also have children who have fallen away from the faith. It happens. And food also gets moldy there.

However, if you seek the Sacraments, then moving to such a place, as we did, may save your soul and that of your family. In my case, if my soul and the souls of my wife and children are saved, I am convinced it will be in no small way a consequence of this choice.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Maximilian on December 14, 2018, 08:32:55 AM
Quote from: QuaeriteDominum on December 14, 2018, 07:44:39 AM
Quote from: Jman123 on October 23, 2018, 08:25:18 AM
I'm noticing that people from smaller sspx chapels are moving to places like St Mary's KS. What do you think of this?
Are there possibly any advantages to raising a family in St Mary's as opposed to a smaller chapel of the SSPX?

To get back on track to the subject of the OP, we moved our family from a beautiful home in a picturesque Mid-Atlantic town to a place (not St. Mary's) that had a Traditional Mass center. We traded an hour commute to a Traditional Mass Chapel to a 3 minute commute to a Traditional church and school (K-12), 3 Masses per day, daily Confession, Eucharistic Adoration, etc.  Everything one would require to raise a family in true Catholicism.  This move was not easy and it took a year to secure a job but it was, by far in hindsight, the best move we could have made.

Saints primarily reside in heaven and if you look to move to a place where they live on earth, you will be disappointed.  So I would not move to St. Mary's or any other place with a concentration of Trads just to coexist with a community of fervent, dedicated, Traditional Catholics because at some level, you will become disillusioned and disappointed. St. Mary's is not the Borg or Stepford - it is just people with a fallen nature seeking to find something they are lacking. Or, they were born there and are not necessarily there by choice. As in anywhere, you will find Catholics at both ends of the 'dedicated' spectrum. There are over 800 children in the school at St. Mary's and, surprisingly, each one is different. I know of families that have children who are priests and nuns and also have children who have fallen away from the faith. It happens. And food also gets moldy there.

However, if you seek the Sacraments, then moving to such a place, as we did, may save your soul and that of your family. In my case, if my soul and the souls of my wife and children are saved, I am convinced it will be in no small way a consequence of this choice.

Thanks for this excellent and well-written piece. Thanks also for sharing your own authentic experience, and for the inspiration of your example.

Quote from: QuaeriteDominum on December 14, 2018, 07:44:39 AM

So I would not move to St. Mary's or any other place with a concentration of Trads just to coexist with a community of fervent, dedicated, Traditional Catholics because at some level, you will become disillusioned and disappointed.

I think that wanting to be a part of a community of fervent, dedicated Traditional Catholics is a worthy motive for moving to a place like St. Mary's, or -- as I always recommend -- Cincinnati. Yes, it's true that the people will not all be saints on earth, so if your expectations are too high you will be disappointed.

But living with fallible, sinful fellow Traditional Catholics is just what we need in many instances to rub off the rough edges. It's also what so often is missing in those who live their Traditional Catholicism in a theoretical, speculative way on the internet -- contact with real live human beings with all their faults and idiosyncrasies.

I've heard it described before as the "potato theory." If you have a lot of potatoes to clean, you can scrub each one of them, one at a time. But instead they have something resembling a butter churn where you dump all the potatoes in together and then stir them around, and they clean each other.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: QuaeriteDominum on December 14, 2018, 12:00:09 PM
Quote from: Maximilian on December 14, 2018, 08:32:55 AM


But living with fallible, sinful fellow Traditional Catholics is just what we need in many instances to rub off the rough edges. It's also what so often is missing in those who live their Traditional Catholicism in a theoretical, speculative way on the internet -- contact with real live human beings with all their faults and idiosyncrasies.


Well put, Max.

My experience is that Catholics, particularly Modern Catholics, do not know their faith. Most are so involved in the world as to have no time for their faith except on Sunday. And most modern Catholic parishes have long since abandoned regular adult catechism .. which is completely different from the Protestantized lay-led bible study meetings.

Similarly, many Trad Catholics with no access to regular live traditional priestly catechesis, rely on "Trad" internet theologians who know what they know by reading, which is not a bad thing in itself, but absent seminary formation, is incomplete and frequently prone to error.

Then you have the group of Trads who spent x years in a Trad seminary and were either asked to leave or left of their own initiative (although it is probably more of the former than the latter) and who are now the guiding Trad-Cat internet theologians.  That is like someone spending 3 years in pre-med and writing prescriptions for you.

So, go to where the priests are, by all means.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Heinrich on December 15, 2018, 10:04:27 AM
Would anyone care to share their experiences? Who here has "up and moved" from Sodom to Shangri La, i.e. from a liberal area to a trad friendly area? Were expectations met? Regrets? I tell you, not a day goes by wherein the Mrs. and I don't mention moving from Californicated Colorado to an area more conservative, mostly Dixie. We had an opportunity with a tremendous job lined up in mid Michigan, but there was no FSSP or even SSPX community within a comfortable driving distance. Not to mention, well, Michigan. So as it stands now we be still here in CO with our beloved FSSP parish staked within an illegal alien, homosexual, tattoo-conventioned, freak face, synthetic and slut populace. Yet it is going to be near 60, mostly blue skies here in December today. I think I will go snowshoeing.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Josephine87 on December 15, 2018, 02:14:31 PM
It's interesting you mention Michigan, Heinrich. It reminds me of this article about two small towns there that have produced a disproportionate number of priests and nuns:

QuoteTwo small Mid-Michigan villages have produced a high number of Catholic priests.

The villages of Fowler and Westphalia were profiled by the New York Times on Monday . Fowler, with a population of 1,224, has produced 22 priests; Westphalia, population 938, which has also produced 22 priests.

And over the decades, Westphalia has also produced 37 Catholic nuns; Fowler has 43.

Lisa Ling did a tv program on the larger of the towns, Fowler. I'd like to see it. It's an NO parish there with girl altar boys and lay lectors...but I almost think I'd rather live there than an urban FSSP parish where half the families live an hour or more away. There's no community.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Heinrich on December 15, 2018, 02:17:56 PM
Quote from: Josephine87 on December 15, 2018, 02:14:31 PM
It's interesting you mention Michigan, Heinrich. It reminds me of this article about two small towns there that have produced a disproportionate number of priests and nuns:

QuoteTwo small Mid-Michigan villages have produced a high number of Catholic priests.

The villages of Fowler and Westphalia were profiled by the New York Times on Monday . Fowler, with a population of 1,224, has produced 22 priests; Westphalia, population 938, which has also produced 22 priests.

And over the decades, Westphalia has also produced 37 Catholic nuns; Fowler has 43.

Lisa Ling did a tv program on the larger of the towns, Fowler. I'd like to see it. It's an NO parish there with girl altar boys and lay lectors...but I almost think I'd rather live there than an urban FSSP parish where half the families live an hour or more away. There's no community.

Those are good points.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Gardener on December 15, 2018, 02:42:03 PM
Quote from: Heinrich on December 15, 2018, 10:04:27 AM
Would anyone care to share their experiences? Who here has "up and moved" from Sodom to Shangri La, i.e. from a liberal area to a trad friendly area? Were expectations met? Regrets? I tell you, not a day goes by wherein the Mrs. and I don't mention moving from Californicated Colorado to an area more conservative, mostly Dixie. We had an opportunity with a tremendous job lined up in mid Michigan, but there was no FSSP or even SSPX community within a comfortable driving distance. Not to mention, well, Michigan. So as it stands now we be still here in CO with our beloved FSSP parish staked within an illegal alien, homosexual, tattoo-conventioned, freak face, synthetic and slut populace. Yet it is going to be near 60, mostly blue skies here in December today. I think I will go snowshoeing.

As soon as the team stabilizes, we plan to take 10 days off (4 for travel to keep the kids from going crazy) and visit the Tulsa/Bartlesville area to see if we want to make the jump.

I want to coordinate w/ Michael Wilson to stop and visit him in St. Mary's on our way either to or from CO.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Michael Wilson on December 15, 2018, 02:43:51 PM
Love to hear from you "G-man"!
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Padraig on December 19, 2018, 06:54:43 PM
Quote from: Heinrich on December 15, 2018, 10:04:27 AM
Would anyone care to share their experiences? Who here has "up and moved" from Sodom to Shangri La, i.e. from a liberal area to a trad friendly area? Were expectations met? Regrets? I tell you, not a day goes by wherein the Mrs. and I don't mention moving from Californicated Colorado to an area more conservative, mostly Dixie. We had an opportunity with a tremendous job lined up in mid Michigan, but there was no FSSP or even SSPX community within a comfortable driving distance. Not to mention, well, Michigan. So as it stands now we be still here in CO with our beloved FSSP parish staked within an illegal alien, homosexual, tattoo-conventioned, freak face, synthetic and slut populace. Yet it is going to be near 60, mostly blue skies here in December today. I think I will go snowshoeing.

Not permanently, but for two summers I did move out to St. Mary's, KS, to work at the nearby Onyx Collection factory, a company owned and operated by traditional Catholics. I'd rate the experience as "mostly positive." That being said, I don't have plans to permanently relocate out there (despite frequent hints from my wife about how much she'd love for us to be back there someday).

The good: The people I met were almost universally friendly, generous, sincere Catholics, who loved God and their way of life. The availability of the sacraments and Mass, direction from the priests, and Catholic fellowship was unique to my experience.

The not so good: Everything else.
The cost of living is high, or the standard of living will be low. There is basically a housing shortage due to the huge influx of residents, and real estate is expensive in town. If you live outside of town, where it is dirt cheap, you lose most of the benefits you moved out to the middle of Kansas to enjoy.
You have to drive EVERYWHERE. Just get used to putting 25k miles (at least) on your car every year.
Shopping is difficult, unless you want to drive 35 miles to Topeka or Manhattan for groceries. (There is a store in town, but it's pretty crumby. And it's run by this atheist who enjoys having meat sales during Lent.)
I didn't have any children to put into school, but I get the impression that tuition isn't exactly cheap.
There is a definite religious "cliquishness," which requires strict adherence to a party line: FSSP, SSPX, or Resistance. Everyone knows who is on which side, and they generally don't associate with each other. (If I had to choose one, I'd probably choose the Resistance, but that would put a strain on my relationship with my wife and her family out there, who are very pro-SSPX.)
The residents out there who aren't member of the parish (and there are of course many of those) are not all exactly "salt of the earth," good, God-fearing Christians. There's a lot of white trash, and there's a rampant methamphetamine problem out there. You end up trading one collection of vices for another when you move from the city to the country.

I know I sound pretty negative, but I don't mean to say that no one should move there. There are MANY people for whom the things I listed are small problems in the face of living in a Traditional community. Which you really be doing if you moved there. You will never see more women in skirts than out there. You will never see more 15 passenger vans in residential driveways. You will never see more priests in cassocks walking down the sidewalk. Those things (and many other aspects of Catholic life which are just parts of NORMAL life for those residents) are very real, and very positive. There's definitely a sense of having reached a "critical mass" of Catholics, where your experience of life is now substantially different from living in a predominantly worldly location. But the negative side exists as well, and saving your soul will never be easy.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Michael Wilson on December 19, 2018, 07:21:29 PM
Thanks for the above post Padraig.
I want to correct the driving distance; its 25 Mi To Topeka; and 27 to Manhattan; You do have to drive everywhere; since I don't have any children that does lessen the driving load.
I also work at the Public School and walk to work, and my sister works in town. So even though I drive to Topeka once a week, I've only put an average of 7,500 mi on my car per year.
Houses are cheaper in the surrounding towns; but its not that far to get there: Emmet 6mi; Rossville 7mi; Maple Hill 10mi. From time to time bargain houses here in town do come up for sale. 
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Padraig on December 19, 2018, 08:59:12 PM
You're right about the distances. I was remembering my drives from where I was staying in Emmett, and probably over-estimating. It felt like a LOT of driving, but probably not 6k miles in the three months I was out there.

I have family in Emmett, Maple Hill, and Bellevue, and although you're right that it isn't that far to any of them, it's far enough that it dilutes the effect of proximity to family. That's what I meant when I said that if you go with the area surrounding St. Mary's you lose the benefits that you moved out there to enjoy, although it will be cheaper. You won't see them everyday. Probably not even every week, unless you plan for it. It's true about family, and even more true about the rest of the Traditional community.

My only point being that if anyone planned on moving out there, I would advise moving to the town that their church was in (either Maple Hill or St. Mary's), even if it is more expensive. Don't go to all the trouble of moving there, and then miss out on the whole purpose.
(However, it will be more expensive, so be aware of that.)
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Maximilian on December 19, 2018, 11:02:13 PM
Quote from: Padraig on December 19, 2018, 06:54:43 PM

There is a definite religious "cliquishness," which requires strict adherence to a party line: FSSP, SSPX, or Resistance. Everyone knows who is on which side, and they generally don't associate with each other.

I've experienced this same thing without having to move to Kansas.

Quote from: Padraig on December 19, 2018, 06:54:43 PM

(If I had to choose one, I'd probably choose the Resistance, but that would put a strain on my relationship with my wife and her family out there, who are very pro-SSPX.)

I recently heard that some people we know in Australia are actually Resistance, and there is a Resistance chapel in Queensland. Which puts the lie to the idea that the Resistance is nothing more than a handful of people living in a cabin in Kentucky.

Quote from: Padraig on December 19, 2018, 06:54:43 PM

The residents out there who aren't member of the parish (and there are of course many of those) are not all exactly "salt of the earth," good, God-fearing Christians. There's a lot of white trash, and there's a rampant methamphetamine problem out there. You end up trading one collection of vices for another when you move from the city to the country.

Yes, we experienced this same thing living in another rural traditional haven (not Kansas). The local residents who seemed like "salt of the earth" types were all doing meth and other drugs. The "Bible Belt" of America is also the "Nascar/divorce/alcohol/drugs" belt of America.

It's a mistake to think "Well my children will never interact with the locals." Yes, they will. If you live in Washington DC, they will interact with those locals, and absorb those vices, while if you live in Oklahoma, they will interact with those locals and absorb those vices.

I guess it's a case of "Pick your poison."
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: nmoerbeek on December 20, 2018, 09:30:26 AM
Quote from: Heinrich on December 15, 2018, 10:04:27 AM
Would anyone care to share their experiences? Who here has "up and moved" from Sodom to Shangri La, i.e. from a liberal area to a trad friendly area? Were expectations met? Regrets? I tell you, not a day goes by wherein the Mrs. and I don't mention moving from Californicated Colorado to an area more conservative, mostly Dixie. We had an opportunity with a tremendous job lined up in mid Michigan, but there was no FSSP or even SSPX community within a comfortable driving distance. Not to mention, well, Michigan. So as it stands now we be still here in CO with our beloved FSSP parish staked within an illegal alien, homosexual, tattoo-conventioned, freak face, synthetic and slut populace. Yet it is going to be near 60, mostly blue skies here in December today. I think I will go snowshoeing.


I moved from So Cal to WV.  I worked in a pretty upper class area but lived on the edge of the barrio in Riverside.  Even many of the conservatives in California are liberal.

Where my expectations met:
Yes.  I live within a 5 minutes drive of the Priory, and the community of Priests are always solicitous for my and my entire families spiritual well being, I made friends quickly with members of the community and there are a far number of people who live close enough in town to have a closer relationship than just on Sunday after Mass. My cost of living is lower, my house is bigger, and my neighborhood is nicer.  I also work in Software Development and should something happen with my job there are lots of other jobs for me in the Neighboring Northern Virginia.

Regrets: No.  A few surprises.  Mainly that the area of WV I moved to is full of transplants due to our proximity to DC.  I know more transplants than native West Virginians.  The town of Charles Town where I live was only a population of  under 6000 today, but was only about 3000 in the year 2000.

Is this place conservative:  In some ways extremely, in other ways no. Hard core liberals are in the minority, but they exist and have a big chip on their shoulder living in WV. (so you will both see Confederate Stickers are some trucks, and RESIST stickers on hybrids).   The beautiful country here also goes to peoples heads here and can make them go environmentalist.    Also Sheperdstown (which is a university town about 20 minutes away) is full of people acting like hipsters with all the worst liberal attitudes.

However people practically fall over themselves if they find out you are veteran in public, gun rights are taken for granted, and people say things in public here that I would have not said in California without fear of repercussion.

As far as Tattoos that is pretty ubiquitous everywhere I travel for work and it is a thing here too, another Tattoo parlor just opened up in town (we know have 2 that I know of). Modesty is definitely better here than where I lived before but that could also be related to the weather being cooler.  It is not uncommon for Homosexuals to bitterly complain about the way their are treated in town, you can see this on various yelp reviews of restaurants, or stores. 


As far as life at the Priory:
They have most day all of the Offices said publicly most are sung.  There are 3 Latin Masses a Day.  They offer confession and Spiritual direction and run a scout program for kids, and have a very large Third Order that is relatively new.  The Brotherhood I am in also has just accepted our first local Novice here, and an oblate, and we have another postulant. The local NO parish St. James has a very large Catholic community and most of the lay faithful get along well with the faithful of the priory and regularly invite us to their Catholic events, they just built a huge shrine to Our Lady of Fatima outdoors that is worth visiting.  One of my friends runs a monthly Catholic poker game, and another has a monthly drinking men's only drinking club. 

With that being said, many families are in the scout program who do not go to the Priory for Mass nor do they all come from trad families, once one of my daughters (who was 7 at the time) argued with another scout over the existence of hell. If you hate Vatican II with a burning passion (I don't but I make mention of it) no doubt you will cringe when occasionally it is mentioned from the pulpit.  Their homilies are mainly based on scripture, the Fathers or St. Thomas and occasionally later Monastic figures, and not so much on later baroque figures (Alphonsus, Montforte, etc), mystics, apparitions and so forth (which for whatever reason really bothered a friend of mine who came from a FSSP parish). Not all the women in the community where skirts to Mass, most women cover their heads but not all, etc.  They do an all Saints party for the Children every year, not uncommon to see St. JPII costumes or Mother Theresa.

Trad paradise? Probably not, however real religion and fraternity is alive and well here and I am very happy with my choice. The priory has a guest house large enough for a family to stay (they ask for a voluntary donation of 50 dollars a night) if anyone is ever interested in visiting.





Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Josephine87 on December 20, 2018, 11:19:33 AM
nmoerbeek's post:  I want to go to there.  :swoon:
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Maximilian on December 20, 2018, 01:11:49 PM
Quote from: nmoerbeek on December 20, 2018, 09:30:26 AM

The priory has a guest house large enough for a family to stay (they ask for a voluntary donation of 50 dollars a night) if anyone is ever interested in visiting.

I wish I had known of this when I visited in 2016.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Michael Wilson on December 21, 2018, 06:33:22 PM
I just remembered one of the members here posted a story about a new traditional monastery in Oklahoma; it sounded like it was in the boonies, but maybe somebody here can fill us in and update the information? This might be something Heinrich would be interested in.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Gardener on December 22, 2018, 10:03:10 AM
Quote from: Michael Wilson on December 21, 2018, 06:33:22 PM
I just remembered one of the members here posted a story about a new traditional monastery in Oklahoma; it sounded like it was in the boonies, but maybe somebody here can fill us in and update the information? This might be something Heinrich would be interested in.

You mean Clear Creek? If so, they have been going since 1999 when the founders came over from Fontgombault.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0MGudBINKw[/yt]
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rii92S_5Og[/yt]

They have grown so much, they have opened a new one in New Mexico.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Heinrich on December 22, 2018, 10:14:44 AM
Where is the NM location?

Thanks for thinking of me, Michael.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Gardener on December 22, 2018, 11:30:02 AM
Quote from: Heinrich on December 22, 2018, 10:14:44 AM
Where is the NM location?

Thanks for thinking of me, Michael.

In the mountains of the Gallup diocese. They're not accepting visitors yet.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: ThreeKings on December 31, 2018, 07:00:40 AM
Quote from: Heinrich on December 15, 2018, 10:04:27 AM
Would anyone care to share their experiences? Who here has "up and moved" from Sodom to Shangri La, i.e. from a liberal area to a trad friendly area? Were expectations met? Regrets? I tell you, not a day goes by wherein the Mrs. and I don't mention moving from Californicated Colorado to an area more conservative, mostly Dixie. We had an opportunity with a tremendous job lined up in mid Michigan, but there was no FSSP or even SSPX community within a comfortable driving distance. Not to mention, well, Michigan. So as it stands now we be still here in CO with our beloved FSSP parish staked within an illegal alien, homosexual, tattoo-conventioned, freak face, synthetic and slut populace. Yet it is going to be near 60, mostly blue skies here in December today. I think I will go snowshoeing.

CA to TX ranch
Best move ever.
Had SSPX mass until 2012, then resistance for a while.
Nothing for a while while we prayed to God to send us sacraments.
Drove 4 hours each way to mass once a month to an independent.
Then prayed God sent us a priest as we built our family chapel.
Now we have mass every week in our family chapel.
We found it best not to compromise.
Stay true to God and He will take care of you.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: ThreeKings on December 31, 2018, 07:06:13 AM
Quote from: Padraig on December 19, 2018, 06:54:43 PM
Quote from: Heinrich on December 15, 2018, 10:04:27 AM
Would anyone care to share their experiences? Who here has "up and moved" from Sodom to Shangri La, i.e. from a liberal area to a trad friendly area? Were expectations met? Regrets? I tell you, not a day goes by wherein the Mrs. and I don't mention moving from Californicated Colorado to an area more conservative, mostly Dixie. We had an opportunity with a tremendous job lined up in mid Michigan, but there was no FSSP or even SSPX community within a comfortable driving distance. Not to mention, well, Michigan. So as it stands now we be still here in CO with our beloved FSSP parish staked within an illegal alien, homosexual, tattoo-conventioned, freak face, synthetic and slut populace. Yet it is going to be near 60, mostly blue skies here in December today. I think I will go snowshoeing.

Not permanently, but for two summers I did move out to St. Mary's, KS, to work at the nearby Onyx Collection factory, a company owned and operated by traditional Catholics. I'd rate the experience as "mostly positive." That being said, I don't have plans to permanently relocate out there (despite frequent hints from my wife about how much she'd love for us to be back there someday).

The good: The people I met were almost universally friendly, generous, sincere Catholics, who loved God and their way of life. The availability of the sacraments and Mass, direction from the priests, and Catholic fellowship was unique to my experience.

The not so good: Everything else.
The cost of living is high, or the standard of living will be low. There is basically a housing shortage due to the huge influx of residents, and real estate is expensive in town. If you live outside of town, where it is dirt cheap, you lose most of the benefits you moved out to the middle of Kansas to enjoy.
You have to drive EVERYWHERE. Just get used to putting 25k miles (at least) on your car every year.
Shopping is difficult, unless you want to drive 35 miles to Topeka or Manhattan for groceries. (There is a store in town, but it's pretty crumby. And it's run by this atheist who enjoys having meat sales during Lent.)
I didn't have any children to put into school, but I get the impression that tuition isn't exactly cheap.
There is a definite religious "cliquishness," which requires strict adherence to a party line: FSSP, SSPX, or Resistance. Everyone knows who is on which side, and they generally don't associate with each other. (If I had to choose one, I'd probably choose the Resistance, but that would put a strain on my relationship with my wife and her family out there, who are very pro-SSPX.)
The residents out there who aren't member of the parish (and there are of course many of those) are not all exactly "salt of the earth," good, God-fearing Christians. There's a lot of white trash, and there's a rampant methamphetamine problem out there. You end up trading one collection of vices for another when you move from the city to the country.

I know I sound pretty negative, but I don't mean to say that no one should move there. There are MANY people for whom the things I listed are small problems in the face of living in a Traditional community. Which you really be doing if you moved there. You will never see more women in skirts than out there. You will never see more 15 passenger vans in residential driveways. You will never see more priests in cassocks walking down the sidewalk. Those things (and many other aspects of Catholic life which are just parts of NORMAL life for those residents) are very real, and very positive. There's definitely a sense of having reached a "critical mass" of Catholics, where your experience of life is now substantially different from living in a predominantly worldly location. But the negative side exists as well, and saving your soul will never be easy.

Your last paragraph is interesting...
One does not need to FEEL Catholic to BE Catholic.
And just because it LOOKS Catholic does not make it Catholic. 
Don't be deceived.  Move where it is best for your family.  Homeschool, pray for sacraments, travel to some as often as you can without compromising the Faith.  God will reward you.
Title: Re: St Mary's KS sspx
Post by: Heinrich on December 31, 2018, 11:01:24 AM
Quote from: ThreeKings on December 31, 2018, 07:00:40 AM
Quote from: Heinrich on December 15, 2018, 10:04:27 AM
Would anyone care to share their experiences? Who here has "up and moved" from Sodom to Shangri La, i.e. from a liberal area to a trad friendly area? Were expectations met? Regrets? I tell you, not a day goes by wherein the Mrs. and I don't mention moving from Californicated Colorado to an area more conservative, mostly Dixie. We had an opportunity with a tremendous job lined up in mid Michigan, but there was no FSSP or even SSPX community within a comfortable driving distance. Not to mention, well, Michigan. So as it stands now we be still here in CO with our beloved FSSP parish staked within an illegal alien, homosexual, tattoo-conventioned, freak face, synthetic and slut populace. Yet it is going to be near 60, mostly blue skies here in December today. I think I will go snowshoeing.

CA to TX ranch
Best move ever.
Had SSPX mass until 2012, then resistance for a while.
Nothing for a while while we prayed to God to send us sacraments.
Drove 4 hours each way to mass once a month to an independent.
Then prayed God sent us a priest as we built our family chapel.
Now we have mass every week in our family chapel.
We found it best not to compromise.
Stay true to God and He will take care of you.

I guess this is what they mean by "home alone."  I believe you are a Marine, correct?