Author Topic: What’s the deal with dancing?  (Read 1419 times)

Offline TandJ

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What’s the deal with dancing?
« on: September 14, 2021, 07:03:30 PM »
I came across an article by the FSSP saying dancing is condemned by the Church. This was surprising to me because plenty of solid Catholic Colleges promote swing dancing and I know of a lot of traditional Catholics who put on “Civil War Balls” with decent, modest dancing. Is there something official I’m not aware of?
 

Offline GiftOfGod

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Re: What’s the deal with dancing?
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2021, 07:23:44 PM »
Care to post a link to this FSSP article?
 
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Offline TandJ

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Offline MaximGun

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Re: What’s the deal with dancing?
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2021, 09:16:53 PM »
Quote
Most sins begin with an image in the imagination – bad thoughts – have you ever had a bad thought that was hard to push away? When
there is also a physical image before the eyes, sin is even more likely. And when one can touch and handle that physical image, sin is very likely. This is what happens in dancing.

This is a stupid simplification you sometimes see from Trad priests lacking common sense and plagued with scruples.  And they nearly ALWAYS come out of America, land of the prudes and the porno.  I wish, for your sakes, the Mayflower had sunk or they had starved that first winter.  Would have been much better for American's mental health.  Yanks just cannot be balanced about anything in this regard.

If I dance with my grandmother I don't lust. Nor with any woman who is not sexually attractive or much older than me.  Or with little girls at a wedding.  It is just a fun dance.  A well balanced person can dance with their friend's mother and not lust.  I have danced with many a bride's mother at weddings. They love a good dance.   A sex-addict or incel can't ride on public transport without lusting at the female passengers.

I have done the Conga and the Hokey Cokey (called the Hokey Pokey in the USA), these involve holding hands and putting you hands on the waste of the person in front.  I don't ever remember lusting with these two fun social dances.  But then again, I can look at a women breastfeeding and not lust either, because she is a mother feeding a baby.  It is about context.

Now, I completely accept that between the ages of say 15 and 25, young people going clubbing or for a waltz or square dance are "on the pull", so to speak.  Young people are nearly always interested in showing their plummage and seeing who is interested in them.  And at those dances, for Trads, the sensible thing is to set standards of decorum and use social pressure to enforce it as best as possible.  But to say it is more likely that dancing causes lust that leads to fornication is ridiculous in 2021 for 2 obvious reasons.

1.  The logical outcome would be to seperate men and women like they do in Muslim countries.  And that does not give you well rounded mentally stable young men, it gives you sex addicts and degenerates.  Work backwards from the above quote.  Avoid all occasions of sin by wearing burqas.  Never let young people meet at all until their wedding day.

2.  Anyone at that dance who wants to fornicate has plenty of opportunity on TikTok and other hook up aps.  The idea that men go to Trad Catholic Square Dances to lust over women is stupid, since there are so many much more satisfying ways to lust.  Men go to good dances to meet good women.  Do they want to hold their hand and put their arm around a waist or on a back?  Sure they do.  That is a good thing.  We need men who like women and want to marry decent women and have lots of babies.

Incels and homosexuals don't fill the pews with the next generation.

I enjoyed dancing with French, British and Italian Traditionalist ladies when I was younger.  And yes, I thought they were very attractive because they were.  Modestly dressed they were very attractive.   Had it not been for such dances many Traditionalists would not travel the 100 to 500 miles they need to meet a potential spouse.

This article is stupid because it presents no solution as to how 21st century young adults are supposed to meet each other and decide whom to marry.  The other methods of achieving marriages used in the 19th century are kaput.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 09:26:48 PM by MaximGun »
 

Offline ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez

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Re: What’s the deal with dancing?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2021, 09:19:38 PM »
This is a stupid simplification you sometimes see from Trad priests lacking common sense and plagued with scruples.  And they nearly ALWAYS come out of America, land of the prudes and the porno.

TIL St. John Vianney is a scrupulous American Trad.
 
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Offline MaximGun

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Re: What’s the deal with dancing?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2021, 09:34:49 PM »
At least the person who wrote his life story was.

People have to be motivated here in the 21st Century to find a spouse.

We don't have a "Trads fornicating behind the square dance" problem.  We have a 30 year old unmarried, unskilled, unready for marriage problem.

We have a large number of Trads who should be meeting at dances and marrying by 25, but who are addicted to internet porn and unable mentally, maturity wise, motivatiin wise and financially to marry.  Unless John Vianney can improve the problem we actually have, then his views on dancing don't matter, because there are not that many dances organised in the whole of the Traditionalist Catholic world.  The problem of lusty Catholic dances which are occasions of sin simply does not exist.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 09:39:30 PM by MaximGun »
 
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Offline ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez

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Re: What’s the deal with dancing?
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2021, 09:51:58 PM »
At least the person who wrote his life story was.

People have to be motivated here in the 21st Century to find a spouse.

We don't have a "Trads fornicating behind the square dance" problem.  We have a 30 year old unmarried, unskilled, unready for marriage problem.

We have a large number of Trads who should be meeting at dances and marrying by 25, but who are addicted to internet porn and unable mentally, maturity wise, motivatiin wise and financially to marry.  Unless John Vianney can improve the problem we actually have, then his views on dancing don't matter, because there are not that many dances organised in the whole of the Traditionalist Catholic world.  The problem of lusty Catholic dances which are occasions of sin simply does not exist.

Someone who lusts after his waltz partner goes to the same hell as the porn-addicted basement dweller.
 

Offline AlNg

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Re: What’s the deal with dancing?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2021, 09:57:24 PM »
I came across an article by the FSSP saying dancing is condemned by the Church.
That is interesting because I was at a Roman Catholic Mass where young women were dancing up and down the aisles. Further there is a lot of dancing in Roman Catholic Churches today. For one example:
The Roman Catholic Church does not appear to be a unified Church today. What happened to the theory of the 4 marks of the true Church ONE, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. Is the Roman Catholic Church today ONE Church or is it a divided Church?
Couples dance for Pope’s Birthday:

Dancing by friars and nuns:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1286272541171036160


On March 31, 1916 a decree of the Vatican (the Sacred Consistorial Congregation, with the approval of Benedict XV), decreed as follows: “In the century just passed, in the states of North America, the custom began whereby Catholic families would gather at dances… The reason and justification for this was given that Catholics might get to know each other and be united more intimately in the bonds of charity and love, and at the same time they would serve as a fundraiser for some pious works.” The decree went on to say that “all priests… and other clerics (that means seminarians) are absolutely forbidden from promoting and supporting dances, even if they are held to aid pious works or for some other holy purpose. Moreover, all clerics (that is, priests and tonsured seminarians) are forbidden to attend such dances, should they be given by lay people.” A.A.S., 8 (1916), p. 147-149 (http://www.vatican.va/archive/aas/documents/AAS%2008%20[1916]%20-%20ocr.pdf, accessed May 31, 2014)
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 10:13:11 PM by AlNg »
 

Offline drummerboy

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Re: What’s the deal with dancing?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2021, 12:53:19 AM »

Every time I see this subject this is what comes to mind lol.  Note: I DO NOT recommend watching this movie, I watched it in younger and dumber days.
"Mightier than the sound of many waters, mightier than the surgings of the sea: mighty is the Lord on high"
- Ps 92:4
 

Offline MaximGun

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Re: What’s the deal with dancing?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2021, 02:04:56 AM »
At least the person who wrote his life story was.

People have to be motivated here in the 21st Century to find a spouse.

We don't have a "Trads fornicating behind the square dance" problem.  We have a 30 year old unmarried, unskilled, unready for marriage problem.

We have a large number of Trads who should be meeting at dances and marrying by 25, but who are addicted to internet porn and unable mentally, maturity wise, motivatiin wise and financially to marry.  Unless John Vianney can improve the problem we actually have, then his views on dancing don't matter, because there are not that many dances organised in the whole of the Traditionalist Catholic world.  The problem of lusty Catholic dances which are occasions of sin simply does not exist.

Someone who lusts after his waltz partner goes to the same hell as the porn-addicted basement dweller.

Here is the thing.  The Cure of Ars and other priests of that era were not objecting to dignified dancing, but rather debauched all nighters where people behaved like they do at a modern nightclub.  Getting smashed, dancing degenerately and fornicating and thus becoming pregnant out of wedlock.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4KnC4ROsiwwC&pg=PA369&lpg=PA369&dq=%22cure+of+ars%22+dancing&source=bl&ots=-ynneoWsai&sig=ACfU3U1TJUMAY4T4Mp2-mfShw3OI3tRt8w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj4uoG-pIDzAhUBgVwKHRYiCSQQ6AF6BAgqEAI#v=onepage&q=%22cure%20of%20ars%22%20dancing&f=false
 

Offline MaximGun

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Re: What’s the deal with dancing?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2021, 02:29:45 AM »
Another quote, source St. Louis de Montfort, The Secret of the Rosary, Forty-Sixth Rose.

“Before the Holy Rosary took root in these small towns and villages, dances and parties of debauchery went on all the time; dissoluteness, wantonness, blasphemy, quarrels, and feuds flourished.”

Modern day trad organised square dances, or even your local secular ballroom dancing club, does not have dissoluteness, wantonness, blasphemy, quarrels, and feuds.  He was objecting to the equivalent of twerking in his day.

 

Offline ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez

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Re: What’s the deal with dancing?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2021, 07:32:20 AM »
Here is the thing.  The Cure of Ars and other priests of that era were not objecting to dignified dancing, but rather debauched all nighters where people behaved like they do at a modern nightclub.  Getting smashed, dancing degenerately and fornicating and thus becoming pregnant out of wedlock.

They were objecting to unmarried people touching each other.
 

Offline MaximGun

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Re: What’s the deal with dancing?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2021, 08:08:59 AM »
That ship has sailed long ago.  Italian, French, Spanish people touch each other all the time.  It is very common in those countries (especially prior to Covid fears) to embrace and kiss people on the cheek.  As far back as I can remember Southern Europeans, Brazilians have been huggy, touchy, kissy people.

Moreover, married people touch other people also, people they are not married to.  You hold a lady's hand when helping her out of a car or carriage.  Men offer their arms to women when walking down the street.  Men helped ladies off with their coats, which is a relatively intimate act.

Are you suggesting that a married Italian Catholic in 1890 would not dance with his sister in law at a wedding?  Or that the Roman Catholic priest would object to that.  I simply don't believe it.  No dances would every be organised if the only people who could dance at them were married couples and the only people they could dance with were their own spouses.

I've provided references that the reason for limiting dances was because of debauchery, dissoluteness, wantonness, blasphemy, quarrels, and feuds.  You have provided ZERO to suggest that priests wanted to stop all touching between unmarried people.
 

Offline ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez

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Re: What’s the deal with dancing?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2021, 08:17:45 AM »
Don't play dumb.

Touching a woman on her hand, arm, or shoulder is nothing like touching her hip or lower back.
 
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Offline MaximGun

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Re: What’s the deal with dancing?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2021, 09:08:11 AM »
Actually in the right social context it is extremely similar.

When waltzing for example it is appropriate.  That is how the waltz is waltzed.

When riding on public transport touching a woman on her shoulder or arm in an inappropriate or uncalled for way could get you done for assault or molestation.

Grabbing her by the hips to stop her walking out in front of a bus would probably get you a kiss or even a medal.

Putting suntan lotion on your best friend's sister's shoulders is probably going to arouse your ardour.  Tearing a stranger's clothes off after a Muslim throws acid on her is not even if she is darned sexy when not covered in acid.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 09:10:10 AM by MaximGun »