The Holy Trinity in Gen 18:1-3 - The Trine God appeared to Abraham as Three men!

Started by Xavier, April 09, 2019, 01:58:27 AM

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Xavier

A wonderful Theophany of the Three Divine Persons appearing to men in visible forms is that of the Three Persons in Gen 18. It is said the Lord God appeared to Abraham, then that he perceived The Three Persons of the Holy Trinity as Three Men. Finally, that he adored Them And yet spoke to Three Persons as to One Lord God, as the Creed of St. Athanasius and the Catholic Faith teaches us the Three Persons are.

Gen 18:[1] And the Lord appeared to him in the vale of Mambre as he was sitting at the door of his tent, in the very heat of the day. [2] And when he had lifted up his eyes, there appeared to him three men standing near him: and as soon as he saw them he ran to meet them from the door of his tent, and adored down to the ground. [3] And he said: Lord, if I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away from thy servant:

In the Eastern Liturgies, it is commonly taken for granted that this was a Theophany (a visible manifestition of the invisible God). For e.g "God in three persons appeared to Abraham at the oak of Mambre, and through mercy he was given as reward for his hospitality Isaac. That God we now glorify him as God of our Fathers."Octoechos, Sunday, Tone 3, Midnight Office, Ode 7. For a scholarly treatment https://www.academia.edu/13190369/The_Early_Christian_Reception_of_Genesis_18_From_Theophany_to_Trinitarian_Symbolism

St. Augustine admirably comments on it below. Do you agree with St. Augustine's exegesis? The other one seems less satisfactory.

Quote from: St. Augustine, from http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/130102.htmBut under the oak at Mamre he saw three men, whom he invited, and hospitably received, and ministered to them as they feasted. Yet Scripture at the beginning of that narrative does not say, three men appeared to him, but, The Lord appeared to him. And then, setting forth in due order after what manner the Lord appeared to him, it has added the account of the three men, whom Abraham invites to his hospitality in the plural number, and afterwards speaks to them in the singular number as one; and as one He promises him a son by Sara, viz. the one whom the Scripture calls Lord, as in the beginning of the same narrative, The Lord, it says, appeared to Abraham. He invites them then, and washes their feet, and leads them forth at their departure, as though they were men; but he speaks as with the Lord God, whether when a son is promised to him, or when the destruction is shown to him that was impending over Sodom.

Chapter 11.— Of the Same Appearance.

20. That place of Scripture demands neither a slight nor a passing consideration. For if one man had appeared, what else would those at once cry out, who say that the Son was visible also in His own substance before He was born of the Virgin, but that it was Himself? Since it is said, they say, of the Father, To the only invisible God. And yet, I could still go on to demand, in what manner He was found in fashion as a man, before He had taken our flesh, seeing that his feet were washed, and that He fed upon earthly food? How could that be, when He was still in the form of God, and thought it not robbery to be equal with God? For, pray, had He already emptied Himself, taking upon Him the form of a servant, and made in the likeness of men, and found in fashion as a man? when we know when it was that He did this through His birth of the Virgin. How, then, before He had done this, did He appear as one man to Abraham? Or, was not that form a reality? I could put these questions, if it had been one man that appeared to Abraham, and if that one were believed to be the Son of God. But since three men appeared, and no one of them is said to be greater than the rest either in form, or age, or power, why should we not here understand, as visibly intimated by the visible creature, the equality of the Trinity, and one and the same substance in three persons?

21. For, lest any one should think that one among the three is in this way intimated to have been the greater, and that this one is to be understood to have been the Lord, the Son of God, while the other two were His angels; because, whereas three appeared, Abraham there speaks to one as the Lord: Holy Scripture has not forgotten to anticipate, by a contradiction, such future cogitations and opinions, when a little while after it says that two angels came to Lot, among whom that just man also, who deserved to be freed from the burning of Sodom, speaks to one as to the Lord. For so Scripture goes on to say, And the Lord went His way, as soon as He left communing with Abraham; and Abraham returned to his place.
Bible verses on walking blamelessly with God, after being forgiven from our former sins. Some verses here: https://dailyverses.net/blameless

"[2] He that walketh without blemish, and worketh justice:[3] He that speaketh truth in his heart, who hath not used deceit in his tongue: Nor hath done evil to his neighbour: nor taken up a reproach against his neighbours.(Psalm 14)

"[2] For in many things we all offend. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man."(James 3)

"[14] And do ye all things without murmurings and hesitations; [15] That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world." (Phil 2:14-15)

Kreuzritter

The interpretation appears to be contradicted by these verses:

Quote22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[d] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: "Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked?

This contradiction is strengthened by the fact that verse 22 originally read "but the Lord remained standing before Abraham".

There's also an equivocation on "lord": verse 1 is YHWH, but verse 3 is adonai.

Xavier

I don't mean to deny, Kreuzritter, both interpretations can be found in the standard commentaries, though it seems early Patristic Thought heavily inclined toward seeing in this passage the early revelations of the Holy Trinity to the Patriarch Abraham and the Prophet Moses.

St. Cyril of Alexandria says, "the episode at Mamre was a revelation of the Holy Trinity and accordingly Abraham, although he saw Three Persons, addressed them as if they were One." More texts from ancient Eastern sources below. Let us look at the next chapter for clues.

Gen 19:[24] And the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrha brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven.

Have you been able to examine the Hebrew for this passage? Is it YHWH in both places? In other English Bibles, I believe I have seen YHWH. I'll have to check, and maybe someone else also can help us out on that and on the original Hebrew texts.

Re: v.22 "the Lord remained standing before Abraham", ok. But in 21, the Lord had said, "I will go down and see", it seems we could say, the Father spoke those words, and sent His Son and His Spirit to pronounce judgment. When in chapter 19, we read the Lord [seemingly from Earth] rained down fire from the Lord out of Heaven, we could understand it as One of Them pronouncing judgment from the Father.

Would you disagree? While it is true these are typologies that could be understood in another sense, we recall Our Lord specifically told the Pharisees, Jn 8:[56] Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad. The next question would immediately come, where in Scripture do we read of this? Jesus invokes the Sacred Name, applying it to Himself, bearing witness that He is the Great I AM, the Lord YHWH, now in the Flesh, saying [58] Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.. More study is needed to say for certain, but I feel this interpretation has some support.

QuoteOf old as you appeared clearly to Abraham, triple in person and single by the nature of the Godhead, you revealed in figure the pure doctrine of the Godhead, and faithfully we sing your praise, God the sole ruler of triple sun.

Octoechos, Sunday, Tone 1, Midnight Office, Ode 3

As an alien in a foreign land Abraham was counted worthy to welcome in type the single Lord beyond being in three persons, in human form.

Octoechos, Sunday, Tone 3, Midnight Office, Ode 6

When you appeared to the Patriarch Abraham in human form, O triple Unity, you revealed the unchangeable nature of your lovingkindness and dominion.

Octoechos, Sunday, Tone 4, Midnight Office, Ode 3

Even that of old you might clearly reveal the triple hypostasis of the one Lordship, you appeared, my God, in human form to Abraham as he praised your single might.

Octoechos, Sunday, Tone 5, Midnight Office, Ode 8
Bible verses on walking blamelessly with God, after being forgiven from our former sins. Some verses here: https://dailyverses.net/blameless

"[2] He that walketh without blemish, and worketh justice:[3] He that speaketh truth in his heart, who hath not used deceit in his tongue: Nor hath done evil to his neighbour: nor taken up a reproach against his neighbours.(Psalm 14)

"[2] For in many things we all offend. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man."(James 3)

"[14] And do ye all things without murmurings and hesitations; [15] That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world." (Phil 2:14-15)

Kreuzritter

Quote from: Xavier on April 10, 2019, 07:45:48 AM
I don't mean to deny, Kreuzritter, both interpretations can be found in the standard commentaries, though it seems early Patristic Thought heavily inclined toward seeing in this passage the early revelations of the Holy Trinity to the Patriarch Abraham and the Prophet Moses.

In either case, it's an intriguing episode and contradicts Talmudic and Islamic views of God.

St. Cyril of Alexandria says, "the episode at Mamre was a revelation of the Holy Trinity and accordingly Abraham, although he saw Three Persons, addressed them as if they were One." More texts from ancient Eastern sources below. Let us look at the next chapter for clues.

QuoteGen 19:[24] And the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrha brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven.

Have you been able to examine the Hebrew for this passage? Is it YHWH in both places? In other English Bibles, I believe I have seen YHWH. I'll have to check, and maybe someone else also can help us out on that and on the original Hebrew texts.

It's YHWH. For verses 1:3, verse 1 is YHWH while verse 3 is adonai.

QuoteRe: v.22 "the Lord remained standing before Abraham", ok. But in 21, the Lord had said, "I will go down and see", it seems we could say, the Father spoke those words, and sent His Son and His Spirit to pronounce judgment. When in chapter 19, we read the Lord [seemingly from Earth] rained down fire from the Lord out of Heaven, we could understand it as One of Them pronouncing judgment from the Father.

That's possible. However the structure of "the men turned away ... but YHWH" makes me favour the other view. I guess the clincher for me leanign the other way here is that I've come to generally regard "YHWH" in the Old Testament to be an explicit name of and reference to the person of the Son, which is why Jesus is called "Lord" in the New Testament but the Father is not.

Genesis 32:8-9
When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when He divided the sons of man, He set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. But the LORD's portion is His people, Jacob His allotted inheritance.

The way I read a passage like this is as the Father allotting nations to the angels, but to his only begotten son, YHWH, that of Israel. Again, structurally Most High = the Lord rather than Most Migh = Father and the lord = the Son makes less sense because Jacob is called the Lord's allotted inheritance. Sons inherit; what is the Father's is already his, not an inheritance. This makes YHWH = the Son in particular "God of Israel" in a special sense.

On the other hand, we know that whereever one of the Trinity is present, so are the others.

QuoteWould you disagree? While it is true these are typologies that could be understood in another sense, we recall Our Lord specifically told the Pharisees, Jn 8:[56] Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad. The next question would immediately come, where in Scripture do we read of this? Jesus invokes the Sacred Name, applying it to Himself, bearing witness that He is the Great I AM, the Lord YHWH, now in the Flesh, saying [58] Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.. More study is needed to say for certain, but I feel this interpretation has some support.

I agree with all of this. I go so far as to say that Abraham knew of the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as such.



QuoteOf old as you appeared clearly to Abraham, triple in person and single by the nature of the Godhead, you revealed in figure the pure doctrine of the Godhead, and faithfully we sing your praise, God the sole ruler of triple sun.

Octoechos, Sunday, Tone 1, Midnight Office, Ode 3

As an alien in a foreign land Abraham was counted worthy to welcome in type the single Lord beyond being in three persons, in human form.

Octoechos, Sunday, Tone 3, Midnight Office, Ode 6

When you appeared to the Patriarch Abraham in human form, O triple Unity, you revealed the unchangeable nature of your lovingkindness and dominion.

Octoechos, Sunday, Tone 4, Midnight Office, Ode 3

Even that of old you might clearly reveal the triple hypostasis of the one Lordship, you appeared, my God, in human form to Abraham as he praised your single might.

Octoechos, Sunday, Tone 5, Midnight Office, Ode 8

Thanks.

Xavier

Thanks, Kreuz. For completions sake, we can examine some fuller revelations of the Mystery of the Holy Trinity in the New Testament, and study more fully the commentaries Sacred Tradition has handed down.

Mat 28:19  Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

St. Augustine admirably comments against the Arian Heretics, "O Lord God, we firmly believe that You are a Trinity. For Truth (Jesus) would never have said, Be baptized in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, unless You were a Trinity. Nor would He have commanded us to be baptized in the Name of One Who was not Lord God."

The Catechism concurs:
QuoteARTICLE I"I BELIEVE IN GOD THE FATHER ALMIGHTY, CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH" Paragraph 2. The Father

I. "IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT"


232 Christians are baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"53 Before receiving the sacrament, they respond to a three-part question when asked to confess the Father, the Son and the Spirit: "I do." "The faith of all Christians rests on the Trinity."54

233 Christians are baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: not in their names,55 for there is only one God, the almighty Father, his only Son and the Holy Spirit: the Most Holy Trinity.

234 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the "hierarchy of the truths of faith".56 The whole history of salvation is identical with the history of the way and the means by which the one true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, reveals himself to men "and reconciles and unites with himself those who turn away from sin".57

Another point as was mentioned is that when the NT says Jesus is the Lord, it means Jesus is YHWH, for that is how "the Lord" was used without qualification by the Jews. Although YHWH may be used of all Three Persons, the Father; His Word Who shares His Essence, generated of Him eternally, and the Holy Spirit of Both Who proceeds eternally from Both.

We already see this in Genesis, where Word and Spirit pre-exist creation and man and create both, and indeed all things, in and within the Father.

So a final testimony from the Holy Spirit is through St. John the Apostle: 1 Jn 5:7 And there are Three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these Three are One.
Bible verses on walking blamelessly with God, after being forgiven from our former sins. Some verses here: https://dailyverses.net/blameless

"[2] He that walketh without blemish, and worketh justice:[3] He that speaketh truth in his heart, who hath not used deceit in his tongue: Nor hath done evil to his neighbour: nor taken up a reproach against his neighbours.(Psalm 14)

"[2] For in many things we all offend. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man."(James 3)

"[14] And do ye all things without murmurings and hesitations; [15] That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world." (Phil 2:14-15)

Xavier

St. Gregory tells us this about St. Athanasius, in handing down his Creed on the Catholic Faith in the Holy Trinity: ""Here too was shown in a very high degree the simple-mindedness of Athanasius, and the steadfastness of his faith in Christ. For, when all the rest who sympathised with us were divided into three parties, and many were faltering in their conception of the Son, and still more in that of the Holy Ghost, (a point on which to be only slightly in error was to be orthodox) and few indeed were sound upon both points, he was the first and only one, or with the concurrence of but a few, to venture to confess in writing, with entire clearness and distinctness, the Unity of Godhead and Essence of the Three Persons, and thus to attain in later days, under the influence of inspiration, to the same faith in regard to the Holy Ghost, as had been bestowed at an earlier time on most of the Fathers in regard to the Son. This confession.a truly royal and magnificent gift, he presented to the Emperor, opposing to the unwritten innovation, a written account of the orthodox faith, so that an emperor might be overcome by an emperor, reason by reason, treatise by treatise.

34. This confession was, it seems, greeted with respect by all, both in West and East, who were capable of life".
This is the True Faith of the Holy Fathers. God is One in Three Persons, the Holy Trinity. The Father is of none; the Son is begotten of the Father alone. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. Our Lord Jesus Christ is True God and True Man. Two Natures united in His Divine Person by the ineffable Hypostatic Union.

"Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the Catholic Faith. Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally. Now this is the Catholic Faith: That we worship One God in Trinity and the Trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another, and that of the Holy Spirit still another. But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal. What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated. The Father is immeasurable, the Son is immeasurable, the Holy Spirit is immeasurable. The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, the Holy Spirit is eternal. And yet there are not three eternal beings; there is but one eternal being. So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings; there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being. Similarly, the Father is almighty, the Son is almighty, the Holy Spirit is almighty. Yet there are not three almighty beings; there is but one almighty being. Thus the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. Yet there are not three gods; there is but one God. Thus the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, the Holy Spirit is Lord. Yet there are not three lords; there is but one Lord. Just as Christian Truth compels us to confess each person individually as both God and Lord, so the Catholic Religion forbids us to say that there are three gods or lords. The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone. The Son was neither made nor created; he was begotten from the Father alone. The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten; he proceeds from the Father and the Son. Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers; there is one Son, not three sons; there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits. Nothing in this Trinity is before or after, nothing is greater or smaller; in their entirety the three persons are coeternal and coequal with each other. So in everything, as was said earlier, we must worship their Trinity in their Unity and their Unity in their Trinity. Anyone then who desires to be saved should think thus about the Trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation that one also believe in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully. Now this is the true faith: That we believe and confess - that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son, is both God and human, equally. He is God from the essence of the Father, begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time; completely God, completely human, with a rational soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as regards divinity, less than the Father as regards humanity. Although he is God and human, yet Christ is not two, but one. He is one, however, not by his divinity being turned into flesh, but by God's taking humanity to himself. He is one, certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person. For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh, so too the one Christ is both God and human. He suffered for our salvation; he descended to hell; he arose from the dead; he ascended to heaven; he is seated at the Father's right hand; from there he will come to judge the living and the dead. At his coming all people will arise bodily and give an accounting of their own deeds. Those who have done good will enter eternal life, and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire. This is the Catholic Faith: one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully."
From: https://jesseromero.com/blog/greatest-explanation-trinity-st-athanasius
Bible verses on walking blamelessly with God, after being forgiven from our former sins. Some verses here: https://dailyverses.net/blameless

"[2] He that walketh without blemish, and worketh justice:[3] He that speaketh truth in his heart, who hath not used deceit in his tongue: Nor hath done evil to his neighbour: nor taken up a reproach against his neighbours.(Psalm 14)

"[2] For in many things we all offend. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man."(James 3)

"[14] And do ye all things without murmurings and hesitations; [15] That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world." (Phil 2:14-15)