Police Seize 10 Homeschooled Children From Off-Grid Parents

[Heinrich]

My daughter was home-schooled and can write better than most here. "Unschooling" has a deceptive allure to the marginalized, but I don't think it is a reason to have the kids taken away. When your society is a socialized one as ours is, then the common good has a higher chance of being threatened due to the fact that the kids will not have the necessary means to contribute to the Keynsian Kitty. On the flip side, however, I will bet that these Kentucky kids have more maturity and coping skills than most public school students.

[Traditionallyruralmom]

There is definitely prejudice against large families who refuse to accept the modern way of life and choose to live differently.

BUT if Jessica and Julie decide to have a few IVF babies and then split up and Jessica gets married to a dolphin and Julie decides to join a free love commune in Missouri, and the children are dragged along....GOOD FOR THEM!  Police and DCFS would not touch that with a ten foot pole.

Yep, lol.   




Thanks for that superb post Traditionallyruralmom.

  I have been homeschooling for 12 years.  My oldest is pretty much graduated and working full time at a farming related business down the road. He is a self motivated hard worker.  My 15 year old "begged" me to let her take a medieval literature class online and teach her how to make meal plans and fancy party menus.  My 9 year old is such a bookworm I have to hide her literature so she will do her math, piano and catechism.  She also asked for a science curriculum this year, so we got Apologia astronomy and a neat kit that goes with it...and away she goes because she is totally into it.  The rest are small and we focus on reading and math and catechism and exploring life.  Once you can read really well, the world is your oyster.  And it really helps to have a mom who loves inner libriary loan and is constantly piling books on the library shelf for you to explore
I am not saying homeschooling is the perfect thing.  But it is what God has ordained for us.  There is no SSPX school in our state...heck, our Mass is 1 1/2 hours away! 
I do know that I ask God daily to give me the graces to do my duty in my state of life and to educate my children for the vocation God is calling them to. This is the best I can do with my limited resources.  Our homeschool is very inspired by St Therese and her little way.  I do what I can, and that is good enough because that is what God has given me the ability to do.  To wish to do more or to beat my self up because I am not providing a Seaton education to my children is akin to not trusting that He has given me all I need for the souls he has given me charge of on this earth. 
Our goal is to raise children who will hear a calling to a vocation if that is what God has planned for them, or to raise real Men who aren't afraid of handwork and are ready to go out and establish a Catholic home.  And for  young ladies the same. 
I am pretty sure that this family in KY has this same in mind, though I do not think they are Catholic. 

[Gardener]

unschooling is not for every child, or family.  True unschooling, in my opinion is not Catholic.  I have read extensively on this subject and even tried it out for a while. 
True unschoolers really believe in a naturalistic child raising philosophy.  That means, no chores, no mealtimes, no expectations.  The children will just (in their opinion) see what needs to be done and do it happily when they want to, because they are inherently good.
As a Cathoilc who believes in original sin, we all know this is crap.  I was told on a Catholic unschooling board to stop giving my children chore times and jobs ect to fix the problem of bad attitude.  Well, living on a small farm with a large family, that is just ridiculous.  If the animals don't get fed, they die and we don't eat.  Or I end up doing everything which is baloney and teaches the children nothing about the real world.  If you read books by Rue Kream and other hardcore unschoolers, as a Traditional Catholic, you will be very alarmed.
John Holt, on the other hand is wonderful.  He has a more balanced approach to the subject, which is probably where this family is coming from.  Research him, his story is pretty cool.  Star teacher in NY, who stopped teaching because he realized the school system as it is set up in the USA these days impedes most children from learning.

Lots of people see unschooling as not doing a heavy load of traditional subjects.  Math, phonics, writing, catechism and leave the rest to the interest of the child.  Make sure there are constantly piles of good books available to the children.  If they express interest in caterpillars, you go to the library and bring home stacks of caterpillar, butterfly and bug books.  If they want to sew, you let them figure out the project and help them with it.  This is how we approach school with most of the children. 

Some children need to be given an lesson plan and a schedule, because if left to themselves, they will do noting.  I have a child like this.  Unschooling was a bad thing for this child.  So, being an observant parent, this child gets the lesson plans, online classes and pretty strict expectations.  The rest who are old enough, and are self directed are given a little more freedom, because they can keep themselves occupied with tasks and projects and are not idle.

I have no problem with seeing farm labor, home chores, extensive reading of good literature and non fiction books, home crafts and just general child exploring as a good education.  I do the basics with the children every day (the subjects I listed above) and feel like they are very smart, well rounded children who are not living in a cave and cannot socialize outside of our little chapel.  In fact, the are so literate, I have to take the books away from them until the work is done so that they do what they are expected to do   They are able to pursue their interests in the time allowed them, which is something as a public schooler, I barley had time for.  And honestly, who says that learning has to take place in a room with textbooks, papers and homework.  Yes, having a schedule and expectations are important, but there are many ways to achieve christian order and structure in a home without re creating the school model in your home.

as far as assuming that there was some sort of violation, that is rash judgement.  I have friends with 10 children, living semi off the grid who were unfairly harassed by DCFS.  Their daughter got a brain tumor, very fast growing, and when the brought her in, she needed immediate surgery.  A nurse turned them into DCFS for neglect.  But the Doctor argued against the nurse saying the nature of this tumor was very fast growing with no symptoms until it is very bad.  My friend finally saw the paper that was turned into DCFS and there were many things to check on it for why this nurse filed a complaint.  Out of all the reasons (with horrid things like bruises, signs of sexual abuse, malnutrition) on theirs was checked Homeschooling, Non Vacinating, Large Family.  DCFS ended up APOLOGIZING to this family. 

There is definitely prejudice against large families who refuse to accept the modern way of life and choose to live differently.

BUT if Jessica and Julie decide to have a few IVF babies and then split up and Jessica gets married to a dolphin and Julie decides to join a free love commune in Missouri, and the children are dragged along....GOOD FOR THEM!  Police and DCFS would not touch that with a ten foot pole.

You bring up salient points, particularly as far as Original Sin. Also, you tried it and it didn't work for you.

I think the most important thing about your post is that you demonstrate that one doesn't have to go to extremes to achieve an extremely good result.

[Kaesekopf]

I think it's funny these people (article authors) think that folks would consider folks in rural kentucky to be living "backwards." 

90% of the people in rural kentucky livd "backwards." 

I bet theres a lot to this story that isnt being reported.

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[Kaesekopf]

Half an hour southwest of louisville is the boonies.  I can only imagine it gets worse when you go further! 

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[dymphnaw]

The neighbors day that the father is violent and that the home is squalid. I'd wait for more details before getting yooy excited about this.

[dymphna17]

The neighbors day that the father is violent and that the home is squalid. I'd wait for more details before getting yooy excited about this.

I don't think anyone here is getting overly excited.  It's been said a few times already that there is probably more to this story.  Do you have a link to the story that said the father is violent?

[dymphnaw]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3074746/Surrounded-garbage-kept-school-neighbors-threatened-knives-s-just-free-range-parenting-claim-parents-blast-authorities-seizing-10-kids.html

"Police discovered the makeshift property last week when a neighbor said the father, Joe Naugler, threatened him with a knife and a gun."

The father has also been previously convicted of passing bad checks.

[Traditionallyruralmom]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3074746/Surrounded-garbage-kept-school-neighbors-threatened-knives-s-just-free-range-parenting-claim-parents-blast-authorities-seizing-10-kids.html

"Police discovered the makeshift property last week when a neighbor said the father, Joe Naugler, threatened him with a knife and a gun."

The father has also been previously convicted of passing bad checks.

The photo of the inside of the home looks neat and tidy.  Honestly, I have some friends who live in homes that are jumbled rat infested disgusting pigsties under a roof.  We must remember that in other countries, people  still do live like this in dignity.  Yes, thee are the horrid tent villages in poor places that are reeking with poverty, but there are also many places where a few poor, but comfortable rooms, or a nomadic tent is still in use.  It is only in america and other western nations where we think that this style of living equals mistreatment.  I am not saying that these people are surely innocent, and I definitely disagree strongly with "free range parenting"  and letting little girls run around without shirts on, but to point at their living situation and say "there it is folks, these people are pigs" just smacks of modern western overindulged lives who can see nothing but the accepted norm as any good.  Not too long ago, soddies and dirt floor log cabins were the norm in many parts of America. 

Again, I am not judging bad or good here.  I will say though, that I would give up much convenience and this huge house I live in to be mortgage free and have more land.  But I am not in charge around here

[Habitual_Ritual]

There is probably a lot more to this story- maybe medical neglect or something. I knew of a family who told everyone they were being investigated for their homeschooling/large family/rural lifestyle, but it turned out that one of the kids sustained a head injury (fell down some steps) and was not properly taken care of.

Dear Lord. My folks would have been sent to Gitmo by this standard. The amount of tree-tops I fell from as a nipper!

[Traditionallyruralmom]

I think it is so ridiculous that this is the line that the secular society draws in the sand regarding what is acceptable for a family.  Rick and Steve can rent a womb and make an IVF baby, and that, according to the secular world is a wonderful thing that should be looked upon as good and beautiful.  Of course Rick and Steve have a normal, if not opulent, well decorated home.  They can give their "offspring" everything that this world deems desirable....because in their mind there is not a soul to consider, no moral rot from hell emanating from the sodominical lifestyle in their eyes.

But take a committed heterosexual couple, who from what I can tell is probably trying to live without being under the thumb of usury, and their children (I am assuming they are all from their union) and that is just the straw that breaks the camels back for the world.  Their worldly goods are not up to par with our modern standards.  Ok, there are piles of trash and nails and stuff.  But how about cities where children wade through garbage and drug dealers on the streets.  Or that well cared for suburban kid who can rot his soul in the trash of porn on his unrestricted internet, or spend her day listening to trash on her iPod and cultivating her unbridled sense of avarice at the local shopping plaza.

All it would take would be a well aimed terrorist strike at the power grid, or some natural disaster and much of our modern world (especially in cities) would be looking much worse than this.  Ever stop and think about how insane a city would become after a day or 2 of no food, flushing toilettes or electricity.  At least these people could still take care of their children.  People in cities would have to resort to FEMA rushing in to "save" them in large football stadiums. 

Call me a radical, but for the record, I have a big modern home with 3 bathrooms    

[erin is nice]

That is not a home, it's some sticks and a tarp. And unfortunately, in some parts of the world people are forced to live in those kind of conditions-- in the US this is not an appropriate way to care for children. That poor filthy baby 

[Kaesekopf]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3074746/Surrounded-garbage-kept-school-neighbors-threatened-knives-s-just-free-range-parenting-claim-parents-blast-authorities-seizing-10-kids.html

"Police discovered the makeshift property last week when a neighbor said the father, Joe Naugler, threatened him with a knife and a gun."

The father has also been previously convicted of passing bad checks.

The photo of the inside of the home looks neat and tidy.  Honestly, I have some friends who live in homes that are jumbled rat infested disgusting pigsties under a roof.  We must remember that in other countries, people  still do live like this in dignity.  Yes, thee are the horrid tent villages in poor places that are reeking with poverty, but there are also many places where a few poor, but comfortable rooms, or a nomadic tent is still in use.  It is only in america and other western nations where we think that this style of living equals mistreatment.  I am not saying that these people are surely innocent, and I definitely disagree strongly with "free range parenting"  and letting little girls run around without shirts on, but to point at their living situation and say "there it is folks, these people are pigs" just smacks of modern western overindulged lives who can see nothing but the accepted norm as any good.  Not too long ago, soddies and dirt floor log cabins were the norm in many parts of America. 

Again, I am not judging bad or good here.  I will say though, that I would give up much convenience and this huge house I live in to be mortgage free and have more land.  But I am not in charge around here

Home? 



They live in glorified tents. 

ETA:  At least camping tents have walls....

[Kaesekopf]

The photo of the inside of the home looks neat and tidy. 

Not a home.  Hobos build better shacks.  Where they sleep is a collection of sticks stuck in the ground.

It's easy to not have anything out of place when there are no walls.

Honestly, I have some friends who live in homes that are jumbled rat infested disgusting pigsties under a roof. 

O.o

We must remember that in other countries, people  still do live like this in dignity.

And in America, we've collectively come to the decision that this is not an appropriate nor acceptable method of living.  We've instituted social programs for the care and wellbeing of our fellow citizens. 

Yes, thee are the horrid tent villages in poor places that are reeking with poverty, but there are also many places where a few poor, but comfortable rooms, or a nomadic tent is still in use. 

The walls aren't even solid.  They're literally just sticks. 

It is only in america and other western nations where we think that this style of living equals mistreatment. 

Yep.  That's for a reason.  Because most people try to provide their families with something better than a tarp they got from a hunting store (at best?).

There's also that pesky "broken glass" issue the articles deal with.  How is that safe for "free-range" kids?  Kids don't know better.  That's why they have adults to guide and lead them. 

I am not saying that these people are surely innocent, and I definitely disagree strongly with "free range parenting"  and letting little girls run around without shirts on, but to point at their living situation and say "there it is folks, these people are pigs" just smacks of modern western overindulged lives who can see nothing but the accepted norm as any good. 

No, pigs have shelter with actual walls.  And don't know any better.  Those kids are literally playing in mud, and that baby is filthy.  How would these people cook and clean themselves?  Dispose of bodily waste? 

Not too long ago, soddies and dirt floor log cabins were the norm in many parts of America. 

Again, not comparable, because those actually had walls. 

Again, I am not judging bad or good here.  I will say though, that I would give up much convenience and this huge house I live in to be mortgage free and have more land.  But I am not in charge around here

What's so glorious about having more land?  I get the romantic notion of it, but if you're living on 26 acres without a pot to p*** in, what's the point?  It runs contrary to sense, if you ask me. 

[Kaesekopf]

I think if these goofballs hadn't invoked the spectre of "taking away muh freedoms!" with claiming it's the "homeschooling" that's an issue, this family would be roundly condemned for child neglect.