Author Topic: To All My Critics  (Read 2430 times)

Offline Insanis

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To All My Critics
« on: June 04, 2021, 09:10:54 AM »
This post is addressed to individuals, but not people who just don't like me personally. It is addressed to those whom the actual words apply. It shouldn't be taken as directed to accounts that don't actually meet the described behaviors. It addresses more than one group, some individuals, and some overlapping groups. If you don't care to read it, don't, but if you leave weird meta commentary on my person in response, that is part of the problem this post is about. This post is longer than average so don't complain about it being long if you don't care about it. Move on or read it.

It is normal for attention to be proportional to activity on a forum. This forum is not very active on a daily basis and it would be easy for any individual on any given day to dominate the activity. When I joined, it was apparently dominated by someone who doesn't actually post all that much otherwise.

I made a poll for the purpose of having a gauge of the daily activity on a forum. I tried to pick a topic everybody could have input on and which wasn't controversial in itself, but which could spark conversations. People like polls. They can vote without actually posting or revealing themselves if they want. I ran it for a day. It had 8 votes.

I was expecting around 20, as that is what other polls that run get, but it is clear that one cannot expect a wide diversity of posters on a given day here. It is normal here for about 5 accounts to dictate all forum activity, and sometimes even less. The individual accounts can vary on a day to day basis, so I am not saying that 5 individuals dominate the forum (although that is probably true as a whole), but that the forum activity on a daily basis is directed by extremely few accounts.

But I'd like to point out, this is a discussion forum. It is ultimately for sharing ideas, links, and having discussions. People who don't post might as well not be on the forum as far as forum activity goes. Any forum has more lurkers than posters, that is normal, but I've never seen it where the lurkers apparently think they are involved with the forum, instead of being glorified spectators.

I was reviewing my posts (to see if I am doing anything I don't want to do, like posting the same thing repeatedly, or having patterns I didn't realize) and it all seemed fine to me. There was one mistake I wish I could take back, but it was just a matter of attribution rather than anything that serious.

And in reviewing my posts, I noticed some weird things: besides people involved in any given discussion, there is a large contingent of cheerleaders who don't seem to post at all, but will express themselves with a public "Thanks". I'm against such systems, although the one here is rather benign (people don't seem to let the system direct their behaviors and there is no "unthanks" button), but such easy click to participate features tend to dumb down users. This is why I don't use it at all (check my profile). It isn't a big deal, but it is one of those things that I have long avoided doing: clicking instead of participating.

However, I noticed that some lurkers do use this system and it is public. It replaces actual posting for them. And I found that some of them logged in, and probably read a lot (which we have no way of knowing, as is the case for all lurkers), but they engaged with the Thanks system.

Some of them posted nothing for days, yet, thanked a pattern of posts hostile to a topic or person. Their entire engagement with the forum was to cheerlead naysayers (for one reason or another).

Others posted very sparingly, but would jump into a developed thread, and post a hostile opinion and then jump out.

I believe the Internet parlance for this is WTF?. I normally wouldn't use this phrase, but you can expand it anyway you like and there are less offensive expansions available.

For people who aren't actually active on the forum, why do you want to be so hostile to people who are? Why jump in and make 50% or even 100% of your daily posts offensive to others, and then bail out?

I understand not wanting to post on forums. I didn't do it for almost a decade. However, I didn't sit on the sidelines monitoring activity and sniping at people! I went on with my life.

Use the forum or don't, but being snipers on the side is weird.

And for people who don't post, yet criticize people who do: post what you want to see. My posts are not that numerous for a forum user. They only stand out here because people don't post. I would have a lot more posts here if there were active threads worth participating in, but most things are stagnate, until a thread gets a flurry of activity from a few users, and then it dies.


And if you are fine with a more sedate forum, be fine with it, don't complain when people post on it! That just discourages activity to have a constant negative presence, if people who lurk and don't engage see that they have to get through a wall of negativity from the start.

Is this a Catholic forum or some remnant of a tribal system living in ruins?

And a word about my posts: almost all of the ones people get upset about are responses to other things on this forum. I didn't join it to criticize it. I joined it for "Catholic discussion and fellowship". My sudden uptick in posts for the blasphemies that I found (see my signature) were a response to that. Had I known that was on the forum and apparently accepted, I wouldn't have registered and waiting for the approval. I was prepared for Sede* activities, Vatican II debates, and the covid/vaccination issue, and I had planned on what I would avoid and what I was willing to post about (not interested in Sede* discussions and Vatican II debates mostly).

And seeing the less than admirable decorum made me respond a little to that too. People here are sometimes very relaxed with the language they use and I think it is something that shouldn't be.

So, if you exclude responses to blasphemy and unusually improper language, my posts are...well, nobody seems to criticize my actual posts that aren't explicit responses to issues I didn't know about before I joined. It is all the stuff I would have wanted to post about on a forum.

And if you didn't like my posts protesting blasphemy and using foul language so casually, maybe you need to fix something in your perspective. If your activity consisted of being critical of me, rather than addressing the blasphemies, maybe you have some guilt. Lurkers should lurk, Posters should post. But the weird in-between accounts cannot have it both ways. Your activities are what you contribute to this forum, and if that means high-fiving blasphemers and attacking people, that is your forum activity.

And I've decided to be careful. I tend to look at threads in isolation and now I'm looking at accounts. People whose activities were in support of the blasphemies, well, I noticed it and took note. I am not going to make a thread calling you out specifically, but I know you are out there and if these snakes try to wiggle out of responsibility in their posts, I'm going to mention this issue.

Blasphemers need to reform and come back to the Church, not infiltrate it and pretend they are normal. I wouldn't do this normally, because in the past, I don't think such views were common at all, but if these kinds of things are going to be present, I'm taking notice.

This forum can be a little strange, and that is alright, but the activity on it should be Catholic, even if it is strange (for a forum).

If you don't like my posts, or they are too long for your screen, just ignore them. You can do it yourself, or set the forum to collapse the posts so you don't' see them by default. Don't attack people just because you don't like them...we are all real people, and chances are, many of us might see each other in real life. I've seen forum users in real life, and a few didn't know, and I'm mindful that some people here might see me in real life and I wouldn't know. If you approach me, I'm still me. And you are still you. And, depending on circumstances, if you are a known blasphemer, and I know it, I might tell you that I don't want to talk to you in person as well. This sort of bluntness is easy for me in person. Being nice in real life doesn't matter to me. I view that as hypocrisy to be vile online and then smile in person.
 
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Offline diaduit

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Re: To All My Critics
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2021, 09:29:14 AM »
The thing is Insanis, you are annoying. 

In real life, I would just not be in your company but here it is more difficult to avoid you because you absorb so much space.

I'll take the flak from others for this post but you need your wings clipped. 
 

Offline Jayne

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Re: To All My Critics
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2021, 09:41:16 AM »
The thing is Insanis, you are annoying. 

Speak for yourself.  This is your personal feeling, not an objective statement.  Other people are not annoyed.  Some of us appreciate his presence on the forum. 

No matter what proportion of the total posts he makes, the ignore function still works.  If you don't like him, take responsibility for avoiding reading his posts. It is your problem.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 
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Offline Insanis

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Re: To All My Critics
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2021, 09:48:49 AM »
If you don't care to read it, don't, but if you leave weird meta commentary on my person in response, that is part of the problem this post is about. This post is longer than average so don't complain about it being long if you don't care about it. Move on or read it.

The thing is Insanis, you are annoying. 

In real life, I would just not be in your company but here it is more difficult to avoid you because you absorb so much space.

You have no self-awareness on this matter.

Make your own threads and start your own discussions! Don't rely on others to do it if you don't like them.

I am well aware that people might not like me or my activity on this forum, but that is not reason to be hostile to me. It is reason for ignoring me or making your own threads and discussions.

This fixation on personal preferences is weird. I find many things annoying. I don't pretend others should care about it though.

Quote
I'll take the flak from others for this post but you need your wings clipped. 

"Someone is using the forum and I don't like it, therefore, they should be stopped."

If only you protested actual evils like you protest me. If people spent more time complaining about me, instead of the blasphemies, what am I to think?

And you made some weird statements, and I responded, and you didn't respond. It is like you go out of your way to be annoyed.

So, I think you choose to be annoyed at me and want to be annoyed. That is your problem, not mine.

You might like me in person, I don't know. I am much slower to communicate verbally (the time to edit, review, and consider on posts makes it seem like I am better than I would be, but conversations are not so easily done). Also, maybe finding someone who knows some Irish would be interesting. I bet most people don't know how to say your forum name. I do. I know what it means.

As on the forum, in person, I'm much better at listening/reading than actively communicating, but one cannot see this passive activity on the forum.



 

Offline orate

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Re: To All My Critics
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2021, 09:56:49 AM »
From a mostly lurker:

I, too, find Insanisí posts interesting, well thought out and reasonable.  Iím glad he is here to mix things up a bit.

I am one of those who stopped posting due to the lack of decorum here,  but was too cowardly, or just plain didnít have the energy to call others out on it.

I believe Insanis is an asset to the forum.  If other donít agree with my assessment, just ignore him and move on.

Back to the rafters.
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Offline Insanis

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Re: To All My Critics
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2021, 10:05:51 AM »
The thing is Insanis, you are annoying. 

Speak for yourself. 

Technically, he is.

It is like people don't realize that a gadfly might help reveal certain things in a situation or even in oneself. People were complacent and going with the very slow flow, and then I start posting and it shakes things up. What did it reveal? Some blasphemies that were shocking to a Catholic were apparently being tolerated to some degree here (I know many did oppose it, but I am not sure if they fully appreciated how shocking it was to someone not previously exposed). Some forum activities were unduly vulgar and people seemed to think this was alright.

And the sheer lack of volume of posts was not my fault. It was everybody who was here who did (or didn't?) that. I compared forum threads to the threads in the beginning of this forum. It is very different. It is not unusual for fewer than five people to be the bulk of a thread that goes on for pages. Back when I first joined (and you first joined), it was not unusual for there to be multiple moderators, and a greater diversity of activity on any given discussion.

(This is why I compare the forum to a tribe living among ruins, it kind of feels that way.)

Quote
This is your personal feeling, not an objective statement.  Other people are not annoyed.  Some of us appreciate his presence on the forum.

Thanks. From the beginning of forum activity, I am well aware that personal reactions to me may vary.

One time, on a technical forum with a lot of social activity, I made over 1000 posts in a day. People commented on this fact. Actually, people generally liked me there, because it was a technical forum and my posts were technically useful, so that got a lot of praise that I could help so many people and have time to have fun.

Quote
No matter what proportion of the total posts he makes, the ignore function still works.  If you don't like him, take responsibility for avoiding reading his posts. It is your problem.

Exactly.

The fact other people don't post is not my fault. The fact that the few posts some make are to protest me or that they silently support people criticizing me is very weird (to say the least).

I look my profile occasionally (well, I guess relatively often) to make sure my public forum activity is something I want to have. I don't want it to be constant bickering over Covid vaccinations or a fixation on some secular or political topic. I am happy with my profile. I write my posts with the idea that people may read them all in a row.

I look at other people's profiles and some of them are wastelands of negativity, and some have such sparse activity, that that activity is dominated by extremely disturbing tendencies. Who has a 100% daily activity just to oppose a single user? At least one that I saw.

(I was looking in the context of myself, so I don't know about others.)

And it is not like I know how people see me. That thread is intriguing because I have very little memory of the actual events.

And Ben had that to say.

And here is apparently my response to all this.

Some things never change. I am kind of happy that I view myself in the past without regret, even though I have poor memory of it. Back then, certain people on this forum were not Catholic, but they are now. Some people were devoted to Our Lady of Fatima, and now they are against it. Some people were enthusiastic about the Church, and now they left it. Some were joining it, and are still faithful. I really don't trust people who don't' display constancy. They are enthusiastic one moment, and cold the next. They are into the truth one day, and then professing heresy the next. They rely on feelings too much.

All in all, I think that should illustrate something.
 

Offline Insanis

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Re: To All My Critics
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2021, 10:12:57 AM »
I am one of those who stopped posting due to the lack of decorum here,  but was too cowardly, or just plain didnít have the energy to call others out on it.

Thanks for the compliment (that I trimmed out of the quote and am now too far into this post to want to overhaul it).

It can be tiring to constantly battle against such things. For people who maintained an account all this time, I respect those who stayed true.

Quote
I believe Insanis is an asset to the forum.  If other donít agree with my assessment, just ignore him and move on.
Well, if nothing else, I provide some activity so people looking at the forum don't think it is abandoned. A forum need "foot traffic" to draw in new users.

I noticed that a lot of accounts are new, but never post. Some post an intro, and then never post again.

I'm not the newest account, but I have the most recent intro. Since accounts need approval, it is more difficult for spammers to get through, so I wonder why these people join but don't post?

For a forum, this one leaves very little grounds for people to join in on. It is mostly dominated by people willing to "self start' discussions. Every forum needs that, but usually the commenters are more numerous, and then there is the lurker cohort. It seems the will to engage has been sapped.
 

Offline Insanis

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Re: To All My Critics
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2021, 10:19:20 AM »
Quote
The thing is Insanis, you are annoying. 

In real life, I would just not be in your company but here it is more difficult to avoid you because you absorb so much space.

I'll take the flak from others for this post but you need your wings clipped.

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I am quoting this (and simulating the view of the post with the Thanks) to illustrate a point.

My post was about this issue. It explicitly addresses the people who skip over the thread to comment on my person in the beginning, and it goes into the naysayers on the sidelines who mainly cheer lead critics.

It is like my thread on forum decorum. After my posts, the first response was:

This guy is such a sanctimonious hypocrite.

It is like people lack self-awareness.

A lot of the responses I get when I comment on the forum itself, I could just label "Exhibit A" (or B, etc).

If someone made a thread about people who wrote long posts, I wouldn't write a long post in response, just to avoid being perceived as completely unaware.

Whether you like me or not, please have some self-awareness. You look like parodies and it is hard to take that seriously. And if it continues, I'll feel like a puppet master, pulling strings of people who cannot help themselves. If I write "don't respond with personal attacks" and I get personal attacks, then I find it funny (and sad, if I view it as Catholic conduct of individuals rather than anonymous Internet nonsense).
« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 10:21:20 AM by Insanis »
 

Offline clau clau

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Re: To All My Critics
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2021, 10:25:26 AM »
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
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Offline Insanis

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Re: To All My Critics
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2021, 10:40:04 AM »
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

That is an odd thing to reference.

I kind of miss Philip Gerard...they had chutzpah instead of this weird whiny protest against people they don't like.

For what it is worth, when I wrote I was going through and taking note in my post, I actually did make a list. The list of people who seem to not like me is quite short. But  they really overestimate their view. It is like they think being a whiny protester who doesn't like someone matters.

If these people think I am going to care about their personal dislike, maybe they need to take into account I would equally appreciate people who do like me personally.

The numbers speak for themselves for what it is worth. I don't pay it that much attention, however, I'd rather deal with people with opposing views and even heresies than people who go on and on about their personal dislike. In the olden days, one could really butt heads with people on issues of disagreement instead of this weird fixation on personal feelings.

It is so petty. I try not to let such things influence me at all. It is embarrassing to be dominated by such a petty motivation.

I want to have some principle behind my acts, not a transient feeling.
 

Offline MaximGun

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Re: To All My Critics
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2021, 12:07:14 PM »
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

That was a neat trick.   ;D
 

Offline Jayne

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Re: To All My Critics
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2021, 12:12:23 PM »
That was a neat trick.   ;D

I thought it was rather predictable.
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: To All My Critics
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2021, 12:16:02 PM »
To be a worthwhile and welcome addition to a forum it is not necessary to overwhelm the entire forum.  Too much of any good thing can backfire, imho.
 
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Offline MaximGun

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Re: To All My Critics
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2021, 12:18:16 PM »
That was a neat trick.   ;D

You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

It's not working in your case.
 

Offline Melkor

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Re: To All My Critics
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2021, 12:21:01 PM »
Insanis, you take yourself way too seriously. It gets a bit much, and it is annoying sometimes.
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