Question for the Ladies

Started by james03, May 29, 2021, 04:07:49 PM

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diaduit

Quote from: Insanis on June 01, 2021, 09:42:00 PM
I stand by my statements: this thread was very weird and showed a lot of insecurity, either as an author or as a man seeking attention of females. It was inappropriate for Catholics to discuss women this way, even among themselves or privately. And it was highly disrespectful to individual women who offered their views on the topic.

This thread and this forum at this point in time is being addressed, not individuals in every circumstance or over all time. All the recent interactions in this thread and in other recent posts were being considered.

You've been pushing the dial on drama since your arrival and frankly you either do it for sport or your just mean spirited.  James is not weird or insecure and oh I bought his book for my sons. 

Insanis

#136

I was talking about the posts on this thread.

I pointed out some issues displayed. It isn't "drama". It is human conduct. It was shameful.



Insanis

So, I looked up this book: The Catholic Red Pill: A Guide for Men

It has very few reviews and not much is said about it online, so it is hard to judge and I'm not going to buy it unless I see it on a shelf for sale somewhere (I don't want it in any online shopping history).

However, I can say:


  • If it is a Catholic take on the red pill culture as it describes itself to be, I'm sure it is fine enough for some people, but it hardly has broad appeal.
  • If the conduct of the author in his discourses with Jayne and others on this thread indicate any habitual activity, then I wouldn't take any advice on him with dealing with women. He was shameful and crass.
  • His website and book seem to be insecure about promoting it..
  • I like the dedication. Punctuation has suffered a lot in modern days and it is about time somebody stood up for it.
  • The "cover girl" promotion was a bit disturbing...girls who are "used to working remotely" for pay for photographs are not usually...well, I am not going to dig deeper.
  • It is vulgar and not spiritually uplifting at all so far

Quote from: Introduction
Ever since yoru mamma sat your diapered ass in front of the TV to watch Sesame Street, you have been undergoing programming into a sick culture based on leftism, feminism, depravity, and even atheism. This programming was reinforced throughout your life: in your schooling, in the music you hear, the movies you watch, the TV you pollute your brain with, the commercials - it's everywhere, demoralizing you and keeping you from what you are ordered to be: a man.

And it goes on.

The takeaway I get is that the target audience is a very pathetic person.

Also, I couldn't find a publisher and it lacks editing. It reads like a blog post from someone trying to sell his magical transformation program, like Charles Atlas.

I have the feeling that people can get a lot more better from The Art of Manliness than spending too much on this book.

I'm sure someone out there, who has no good father figure and poor upbringing and who is actually described by the introduction would benefit from this, but that is like the people who are into Christian rap and other hip-ified nonsense. 

Quote from: diaduit on June 02, 2021, 02:32:04 AM
James is not weird or insecure and oh I bought his book for my sons. 

If it was the red pill one, then you have judged your raising of them very poorly. If my father gave me that, I'd think "what do you think I am?" and throw it away (or rather, give it away, as I don't usually throw out books).

Insanis

#138
That brief look into it is probably all I will do.

I have seen worse self-published materials, but that is a very low bar to pass.

It was a blog packaged up as a "book".

It is good that the women on this thread didn't actually read it. They might have a few things to say.

EDIT: And before fans of it get up in arms, just think: if I have such a low view of it, what more is there that is better? Inquire about that, instead of getting defensive and sore about someone not praising something you like.

EDIT 2: The lack of a publisher coupled with a lack of a Nihil Obstat or Imprimatur or any substantial online reviews make me not view this as a "book". Anyone can get something printed. We are all authors here if we print out our posts and bind them together.

EDIT 3: It is astounding that all the hoopla was about that.


Melkor

Quote from: Insanis on June 02, 2021, 05:28:39 AM
That brief look into it is probably all I will do.

I have seen worse self-published materials, but that is a very low bar to pass.

It was a blog packaged up as a "book".

It is good that the women on this thread didn't actually read it. They might have a few things to say.

EDIT: And before fans of it get up in arms, just think: if I have such a low view of it, what more is there that is better? Inquire about that, instead of getting defensive and sore about someone not praising something you like.

I frankly don't care what you think of the book. You are entitled to your opinions. I have read the book and benefited from it, and so have many other young trad males I am sure.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ

Insanis

#140
Quote from: Melkor on June 02, 2021, 05:52:14 AM
I frankly don?t care what you think of the book. You are entitled to your opinions. I have read the book and benefited from it,
I'm sure you did. But be sure to surpass it. It was a very low bar.

Quoteand so have many other young trad males I am sure.

Maybe, but 4 reviews and no online presence makes me think it is an extremely niche product, still in the "family and friends" stage of publication.


Tales

This whole saga is fascinatingly instructive but sad to observe.  Once you've figured out what's going on here it all makes sense.  But apparently many haven't figured it out yet and so many misunderstandings occur and from that much bitterness.  It need not be that way.

Melkor

Quote from: Davis Blank - EG on June 02, 2021, 07:28:22 AM
This whole saga is fascinatingly instructive but sad to observe.  Once you've figured out what's going on here it all makes sense.  But apparently many haven't figured it out yet and so many misunderstandings occur and from that much bitterness.  It need not be that way.

I hope no one is bitter, I know I am not.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ

Jayne

Quote from: Davis Blank - EG on June 01, 2021, 08:13:08 PM
It is inconsistent to reject generalizations about women and then go on to make generalizations about human relationships.

I am not rejecting generalizations absolutely and, as far as I can tell, nobody else is either.  There are times when generalizations are appropriate and times when they are not.  I thought that James was using generalizations inappropriately, but I can think of other situations in which they are useful.

It is usually better, when using generalizations, to clearly identify them as such.  For example, saying "women are usually more extraverted than men tend to be" is better than saying, "women are more extraverted than men."  There is much less danger of the former being misunderstood as a claim about all men and women.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.

Jayne

Quote from: Davis Blank - EG on June 01, 2021, 09:12:19 PM
You don't get to have it both ways, just like you cannot reject James' generalizations of women and then offer forth multiple generalizations of human interaction.  It is inconsistent.  Similarly, as before, it is inconsistent to reject Gerard's questioning while being open to questioning things like the pope (particularly striking in that that whole brouhaha started in a thread in which the pope rejected a proposed Marian title).  As an aside, the only consistent positions are to obey and acquiesce to all or to be open to questioning anything.  Occupying anything in between, no matter how pious the intentions are, is inconsistent.  This inconsistency plays a role in the bitter and nasty theological debates that plague traditional Catholic forums.

You are setting up false dichotomies.  It is possible for some, but not all, generalizations to be helpful.  It is possible for some, but not all, questioning to be legitimate.  (I already wrote about this in regard to the Marian discussion, but have not seen a response from you.)
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.

Jayne

Quote from: diaduit on June 02, 2021, 02:32:04 AM
You've been pushing the dial on drama since your arrival and frankly you either do it for sport or your just mean spirited.

From my longer acquaintance with Insanis, I doubt either of the explanations you are considering are true.  He is not a neurotypical person.  He does not think about things or experience the world the way that you, or most people, do.  He is, almost certainly, not intending to create drama.  He is just being himself.  Insanis is definitely not mean-spirited.  He is an especially kind person. 
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.

Tales

Jayne,

Yes, such is the issue at play here.  I think it is obvious but apparently most people haven't figured it out yet.

His intent is good and he has much to offer and I am confident he is a very kind person.  But the issue at play here results in many social faux pas which register as malice for people without this issue.  Things such as what happened with Gerard could likely have been avoided had Gerard recognized what was going on.  And so long as most people don't figure it out then there will be unnecessary and harmful conflicts.  It need not be this way.

Insanis

Morality and doctrine are not a matter of social niceties.

And if the conduct on this thread by the OP was "normal", then I don't want to be normal.

Talking about people and talking to women that way was far beyond any common misunderstanding of intent that people may have with me sometimes.

In fact, sometimes it is good to not be that socially connected to people, because that clouds judgement.

I'd rather not be a vulgar, crass, and blaspheming normal person (which is apparently considered normal here as if there is no malice in all that). I'd rather be morally sound, doctrinally pure, and slightly out of touch with society.

People who jump to conclusions that is malice are using the wrong judgement: malice is evil. Evil words, blasphemies, and heresies are evil. If people put the efforts into insulting me (and others) to good use, maybe this forum would not be so hazardous for Catholics.

QuoteAnd so long as most people don't figure it out then there will be unnecessary and harmful conflicts.  It need not be this way.

There are occasionally small conflicts with people due to small misunderstandings that are easily and quickly rectified.

Also, percentages of posts matter. A lot of the people who criticized me have very few posts and their posts about me take up a large percentage of the total posts in a given time frame. After a long thread or multiople threads, someone comes out of the woodwork to post against me. That is, how should I put it, rude. If one wasn't there for the development and just looking at the end, what use is that?

QuoteThings such as what happened with Gerard could likely have been avoided had Gerard recognized what was going on.

Gerard was spreading those errors long before I joined apparently. I just discovered it and found it to be as shockingly unCatholic as it was and wouldn't let myself get used to it.

I specifically don't want such errors to be normalized, because, things like that are not about social relationships, they are about devotion to God. Making it about me, a forum "drama" or some "debate", is to reduce higher matters to vulgar, and that is wrong. It wasn't about me, even though some people had trouble not thinking it was.

I didn't join this forum to confront that. I had no idea that any Catholic would hold such ideas. Had I know that was accepted here at all I wouldn't have joined.

Naturally, I use the forum every day since joining and many people don't. And this stands out I think. It may change in time, but it is stupid to think that someone who comes by once in a while to check and then makes a remark and then goes back into hiding has a grasp on what is going on day to day.

I mean, for all those people who are posting against me and thanking people who insult me, where were you when Our Lady was being blasphemed and her devotees were being attacked and accused of idolatry?

Does anyone think I wanted to see that and respond to it?


And you had here a man posting insults and accusations to a woman after she responded to a question directed at women, and who stood up for her? How could a man let that happen?

Some people here are anonymous about their identity, but some are very open, and we should accept that as being a part of the discourse: those are real people.

Insanis

And a while back, a thread was made insulting me by name in the title, and almost nobody stood up, at least, not the people here willing to hurl insults at me.

What kind of behavior is that, to allow a thread like that to be active about a new user?

I didn't take it too seriously, because I wasn't thinking of myself at the time (it was a bigger issue being addressed), but in hindsight, the fact people stood by while all that was happening and willing to insult me is telling.

It is one thing to be inactive, but it is another to stand by and then add to the insult after it is done.

You come and go and accept whatever happens on this forum, and then you attack the person who tries to point out the problems because they are grievously shocking to a Catholic mindset which hasn't been numbed by exposure.

I'd rather be hated than popular if that is the kind of thing that is accepted.

Yes, I'm ranting now.

People have used every thread to make comments about me and to insult me and I largely ignored it and tried not to respond to it.

But I hope you understand: I do see it and eventually I'm going to take the time to reflect on what it means.

Instead of telling me not to post, post what you want to see on the forum. It is a forum. That is what it is for.

Quote from: Davis Blank - EG on June 02, 2021, 06:14:57 PM
Yes, such is the issue at play here.  I think it is obvious but apparently most people haven't figured it out yet.

His intent is good and he has much to offer and I am confident he is a very kind person.  But the issue at play here results in many social faux pas which register as malice for people without this issue. 

Or the forum is full of people numbed to the crassness on it and don't understand that everything isn't about being popular all the time.

Insanis

#149
And one more thing: the forum has public posts on it, but it also has private messages.

I get a lot of private messages from people who rarely or never post. I've been getting them since the first week of joining.

They are all supportive and they express agreement with me in many ways.

They don't post: because of the things I am experiencing myself.

There is a whole "hidden forum" of people who would want to be active, but they aren't.

(Note: anybody who sent me a message recently, this is not about you. I've had a lot of messages for a while now.)

So the few people who are critical of me because they don't like something about my posting or their perception of me...it doesn't really matter because it is such a tiny group of people compared to the other group, although, a lot of the critics are public, whereas the rest are not.