Una Cum Mass

[Baylee]

I selected #1 as well.  However, I would qualify that by saying that I don't agree that it is "acceptable" without exception. I agree with Bishop Mark Pivarunas' position.  Despite holding that one may petition such sacraments without sin, he also warns to use great discretion in doing so:

PS.  This also assumes that said priest is a certainly valid priest.  I would investigate that before even considering assisting at any una cum mass.

I voted 3 but the above is pretty much what I think.  Don't know how to change my vote.  I'd avoid an una cum mass if at all possible. 

It's pretty much a moot point for me as the only latin mass in my area is a diocesan one and I won't go to it (for the una cum and a few other issues).  I've become a "home aloner" not exactly by choice.

Agree with you 100%.  You're not technically a home-aloner because it's only due to your circumstances.
 Not because you refuse to go to any TLM. I'm not sure what Bonaventure meant by "home aloner" though.

[Miriam_M]

I selected #1 as well.  However, I would qualify that by saying that I don't agree that it is "acceptable" without exception. I agree with Bishop Mark Pivarunas' position.  Despite holding that one may petition such sacraments without sin, he also warns to use great discretion in doing so:

PS.  This also assumes that said priest is a certainly valid priest.  I would investigate that before even considering assisting at any una cum mass.

I voted 3 but the above is pretty much what I think.  Don't know how to change my vote.  I'd avoid an una cum mass if at all possible. 

It's pretty much a moot point for me as the only latin mass in my area is a diocesan one and I won't go to it (for the una cum and a few other issues).  I've become a "home aloner" not exactly by choice.

Agree with you 100%.  You're not technically a home-aloner because it's only due to your circumstances.
 Not because you refuse to go to any TLM. I'm not sure what Bonaventure meant by "home aloner" though.

I thought home-aloner was universally understood literally -- choosing to refrain from Mass attendance because all the reasonably near options are unacceptable (and perceived by that Catholic as being harmful spiritually).

Myself, I would differentiate that from the literal absence of a Catholic church within reach, as well as situations like locked churches/terror of viruses.  I would call the latter an abandoned Catholic.

[Baylee]

Some Catholics do indeed need to stay home, but home-aloners is something completely different.

The CMRI has this article posted on their website:

https://cmri.org/articles-on-the-traditional-catholic-faith/traditional-priests-legitimate-sacraments/

Or a traditional Catholic may come across a tract by a traditionalist type popularly called a "home-aloner." This is someone who rejects Vatican II and the New Mass, but at the same time denounces the sacramental ministrations of all (or most) traditional Catholic priests as illegal, sinful, punishable by excommunication, against canon law or, in the case of confession, invalid. So in place of receiving sacraments, he recommends that you stay "home alone."

[Bonaventure]

I selected #1 as well.  However, I would qualify that by saying that I don't agree that it is "acceptable" without exception. I agree with Bishop Mark Pivarunas' position.  Despite holding that one may petition such sacraments without sin, he also warns to use great discretion in doing so:

PS.  This also assumes that said priest is a certainly valid priest.  I would investigate that before even considering assisting at any una cum mass.

I voted 3 but the above is pretty much what I think.  Don't know how to change my vote.  I'd avoid an una cum mass if at all possible. 

It's pretty much a moot point for me as the only latin mass in my area is a diocesan one and I won't go to it (for the una cum and a few other issues).  I've become a "home aloner" not exactly by choice.

Agree with you 100%.  You're not technically a home-aloner because it's only due to your circumstances.
 Not because you refuse to go to any TLM. I'm not sure what Bonaventure meant by "home aloner" though.

Home Aloner:

I don't live reasonably close to any non-una cum Masses. There are valid Catholic Masses near me (SSPX, Resistance, Eastern Rite, etc), but I choose not to attend and stay home.

[Bonaventure]

It is one thing to stay home because you question validity.

Here is a better way to put it:

It's 1985, and a Sunday. Archbishop Lefebvre is down the street saying a Low Mass, no sermon, and ostensibly saying Mass "una cum JP2."

It's 2024. A retired, 90 year old diocesan priest, who was ordained in 1964, is saying Mass on Sunday. This Mass is the only nearby Mass within 6 hours travel. The priest is 100% orthodox and is completed opposed to the Novus Ordo, V2, etc.

Said priest tried to do his best within the diocesan framework, and for his efforts was never given a real assignment and made a hospital chaplain his entire career. Little by little, he came to slowly reject the V2 changes, but this took decades.

Said priest publicly tells people, I think it is hugely possible and even likely that all of the conciliar popes have been impostors, that one day the Church will decide, that I don't want to make the decision. I simply personally don't agree with formal SVism for x, y, or z. He tells people that he has doubts as to Bergoglio's papacy, but he is afraid to omit this name because if he is wrong, he'd be schismatic and sinning. (FYI, this is all based off a real life example of a priest I know).

Would you refuse to go?

If the answer is yes, I would say you are a home aloner.

[Bonaventure]

Some Catholics do indeed need to stay home, but home-aloners is something completely different.

The CMRI has this article posted on their website:

https://cmri.org/articles-on-the-traditional-catholic-faith/traditional-priests-legitimate-sacraments/

Or a traditional Catholic may come across a tract by a traditionalist type popularly called a "home-aloner." This is someone who rejects Vatican II and the New Mass, but at the same time denounces the sacramental ministrations of all (or most) traditional Catholic priests as illegal, sinful, punishable by excommunication, against canon law or, in the case of confession, invalid. So in place of receiving sacraments, he recommends that you stay "home alone."

Some Catholics do indeed need to stay home, but home-aloners is something completely different.

The CMRI has this article posted on their website:

https://cmri.org/articles-on-the-traditional-catholic-faith/traditional-priests-legitimate-sacraments/

Or a traditional Catholic may come across a tract by a traditionalist type popularly called a "home-aloner." This is someone who rejects Vatican II and the New Mass, but at the same time denounces the sacramental ministrations of all (or most) traditional Catholic priests as illegal, sinful, punishable by excommunication, against canon law or, in the case of confession, invalid. So in place of receiving sacraments, he recommends that you stay "home alone."

Aforementioned article was written and published a few years before the "una cum" issue became an issue.

Remember, the anti una cum clergy (Dolan, Cekada, Sanborn, et al.) are not saying to use discretion when attending a valid "Una Cum" Mass.

These men are saying it is a "mortal sin," a sin against the first commandment, and Sanborn's seminary prefect and professor has publicly written that one una cum Mass is more offensive to almighty God than all of the abortions ever committed in history.

As I've stated, this would mean that his superior, boss, and the bishop who ordained him, was ordained in a mortally sinful, offensive to God, ordination ceremony.

[Stubborn]

Remember, the anti una cum clergy (Dolan, Cekada, Sanborn, et al.) are not saying to use discretion when attending a valid "Una Cum" Mass.

These men are saying it is a "mortal sin," a sin against the first commandment, and Sanborn's seminary prefect and professor has publicly written that one una cum Mass is more offensive to almighty God than all of the abortions ever committed in history.

First, what these priests (and most sedes) fail to accept is that it is strictly an opinion that the conciliar popes are not popes, that's all it is and ever was. Their sedeism certainly isn't a doctrine, dogma, or a truth taught by the Catholic Church and should never, not ever be treated as if it is because that's heresy - it *should* be treated as an opinion because that's what it is.

Second, the Mass is not theirs, their sedeism is only their opinion. But the Mass not theirs, they do not have the right to change a single word of it by purposeful omission. I mean what the heck, they (rightfully) condemn the NOM for all it's changes, yet apparently they do not view non-una cum as being at all comparable, yet they are doing the same thing to the Mass that the NOers do and more by condemning all those who disagree with their opinion to mortal sin against the 1st commandment? Lord have mercy!   

[Bonaventure]

Remember, the anti una cum clergy (Dolan, Cekada, Sanborn, et al.) are not saying to use discretion when attending a valid "Una Cum" Mass.

These men are saying it is a "mortal sin," a sin against the first commandment, and Sanborn's seminary prefect and professor has publicly written that one una cum Mass is more offensive to almighty God than all of the abortions ever committed in history.

First, what these priests (and most sedes) fail to accept is that it is strictly an opinion that the conciliar popes are not popes, that's all it is and ever was. Their sedeism certainly isn't a doctrine, dogma, or a truth taught by the Catholic Church and should never, not ever be treated as if it is because that's heresy - it *should* be treated as an opinion because that's what it is.

Second, the Mass is not theirs, their sedeism is only their opinion. But the Mass not theirs, they do not have the right to change a single word of it by purposeful omission. I mean what the heck, they (rightfully) condemn the NOM for all it's changes, yet apparently they do not view non-una cum as being at all comparable, yet they are doing the same thing to the Mass that the NOers do and more by condemning all those who disagree with their opinion to mortal sin against the 1st commandment? Lord have mercy!   

I don't disagree with you.

[Baylee]

I thought this wasn't going to be a debate about the una cum.     I was just explaining to Miriam what the term home-aloner means.

[Bonaventure]

I thought this wasn't going to be a debate about the una cum.     I was just explaining to Miriam what the term home-aloner means.

I tried!

[Baylee]

It is one thing to stay home because you question validity.

Here is a better way to put it:

It's 1985, and a Sunday. Archbishop Lefebvre is down the street saying a Low Mass, no sermon, and ostensibly saying Mass "una cum JP2."

It's 2024. A retired, 90 year old diocesan priest, who was ordained in 1964, is saying Mass on Sunday. This Mass is the only nearby Mass within 6 hours travel. The priest is 100% orthodox and is completed opposed to the Novus Ordo, V2, etc.

Said priest tried to do his best within the diocesan framework, and for his efforts was never given a real assignment and made a hospital chaplain his entire career. Little by little, he came to slowly reject the V2 changes, but this took decades.

Said priest publicly tells people, I think it is hugely possible and even likely that all of the conciliar popes have been impostors, that one day the Church will decide, that I don't want to make the decision. I simply personally don't agree with formal SVism for x, y, or z. He tells people that he has doubts as to Bergoglio's papacy, but he is afraid to omit this name because if he is wrong, he'd be schismatic and sinning. (FYI, this is all based off a real life example of a priest I know).

Would you refuse to go?

If the answer is yes, I would say you are a home aloner.

I think in the future you should be clear what you mean by the term then.  I see your "home aloner" as someone who is always against assisting at an una cum mass no matter what. Perhaps that person should be called "anti-una cum"

When I see home-aloner or use that term, I think of someone who thinks all trad clergy and masses are invalid/illicit and that it is a mortal sin to attend...whether una cum or not.

Actually, why wouldn't your examples lead someone to respond with your #3 above (rather than home-aloner)?

[Bonaventure]

I've edited option 4 to be more precise.

[Baylee]

I've edited option 4 to be more precise.

But then what is the difference between 3 and 4?  Sorry.

[Bonaventure]

I've edited option 4 to be more precise.

But then what is the difference between 3 and 4?  Sorry.

At this point, it would only be "there is no non una cum Mass near me."

[Michael Wilson]

I wonder what the "other" voters mean by "other"; other than: "Y'all seds are all crazier than loons!"