Author Topic: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.  (Read 14864 times)

Offline Older Salt

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Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« on: October 27, 2014, 09:13:51 AM »
I wrote to Church Militant TV, politely requesting that they stop bashing other Catholics and help unification in the Church.
Here is CMTV's response:

"Dear Dan,


"Will Mr. Voris and CMTV not acknowledge The Remnant's cordial tone"?


Yes, Their tone is cordial.  So what?  Should we write Michael Matt and thank him for being cordial?  Is that all you are asking? 


Soldiers in battle on opposing sides may admire each other's dedication and skill in battle, they may be truly impressed with each other's fortitude and courage, but they are still fighting on opposing sides and "weakness" by either with regard to the other can prove fatal.  You don't compromise with error or evil.  You fight it and strive to defeat it.


The Remnant fails to accept that when you attack the Pope PUBLICLY, as they do in virtually every issue, they are attacking the Church.  "The Pope is Different," as we articulated in our Vortex episode with that name, and elsewhere (see FAQ: ChurchMilitant.TV Will Not Engage in Public Criticism of the Pope, video It Always Comes Back to the Pope, video The Pope is Different). One  CAN criticize the Pope but, because "the Pope is different," one must be VERY careful that, in doing so, one doesn't lead people away from the Church into "real" or "practical" sedevacantism.  The Pope represents the Church in a way that bishops and priests do not.  You can criticize bishops against a "horizon" of love for the Church.  You can't criticize the Pope without risking a blurring of that "horizon" because the Pope represents and symbolizes the unity of the Church in a way that bishops and priests do not.​


CMTV is routinely misunderstood as saying "No one can criticize the Pope" or "No one can even think critical thoughts about the Pope" or "Criticizing the Pope is a sin."  That's all nonsense and not supported by ANY of our public or private statements.  PUBLIC criticism of the Pope has consequences and, in the case of The Remnant and Catholic Family News, can be documented as leading people out of the Church and/or encouraging those who have left to remain there.  Accusations that our criticism of priests, bishops and cardinals produces the same results cannot be documented.  It's purely hypothetical.  We have NEVER received an email from ANYONE saying that, because of our criticism of the hierarchy, they have left the Catholic Church.  We receive lots of emails telling us that our "tone" and "style" and "content" will or has had that effect, but there is no concrete evidence that this has ever happened even once.  The Remnant, however, provides its own evidence of the results of its actions in the countless examples of the consequences of their support for the SSPX.  They support the SSPX, their readers are frequently participants in SSPX settings as their normal practice of the Faith, and they have no hesitation encouraging people to follow that route out of the Church and staying there.


I'm sure you object to the allegation that the SSPX is an example of being "out of the Church."  That objection is implicit in your belief that there are clear distinctions between the SSPX and the "Sedes," as well as your claim that the SSPX "acknowledge the pope and all that comes with him--the good and the bad," not to mention your statement that "CMTV does not need to bash the SSPX."  These are all demonstrably false claims.  The SSPX are, if anything, "Halloween Catholics," i.e. they dress up and play Catholic probably better than most but, at the end of the day, unlike Halloween revelers dressed as Spider Man, they actually believe that they are the characters that they are playing.


Consider what the SSPX and the "Sedes" have in common: none of their clergy are part of the divinely ordained hierarchical structure of the Church (their bishops don't submit to Rome and all their priests submit to bishops who don't submit to Rome), all of their clergy are suspended a divinis, none of their clergy have canonically required faculties to hear confessions or preside at Catholic marriages (making confessions invalid due to lack of faculties and marriages invalid due to lack of canonical form), and none of their clergy have a "canonical status" or a "legitimate ministry" (it's amusing how often you hear SSPX apologists refer to their canonical status as "irregular" when it's irrefutable that the Holy Father himself said their canonical status is "none").  I don't know about the "Sedes" but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they, just like the SSPX, have their own marriage tribunals, clearly something not supported by canon law.  The SSPX and the "Sedes" are "branches" once attached to the life-giving vine that have separated themselves from that vine.  Because of the life-giving vine from which they have separated themselves, it's not surprising that they would continue to show signs of life after separation but, as is inevitable, they will eventually wither and die from lack of nourishment or, more likely, become their own flavor of Catholicism claiming to be Catholics who judge union with Rome not to be a constitutive part of Roman Catholicism.  Even Protestantism has evolved in this way.


What the SSPX and "Sedes" do NOT have in common is the expressed desire by the SSPX to be "reconciled" with the Church.  That is, indisputably, a good thing.  However, in all visible ways, the SSPX and the "Sedes" are almost indistinguishable because of all the things they have in common.  They each have their own bishops, not in communion with Rome and, although the SSPX claims to want to reconcile with the Church, in practice they do not submit to the authority of the Church any more than the "Sedes" do.  In practice what we see is the Church inviting the SSPX to reconcile with Her ("invited to rediscover the path to full communion with the Church") and the SSPX striving to convince the Church to reconcile with them!  Again, this is the same strategy employed by Protestantism: "we'd love to be one with you, but you have to agree with us, first."


I don't know that CMTV "bashes" the SSPX so much as subjects them to the same scrutiny that we subject all religious groups that are in error and not in union with the Church in Rome.  The SSPX constantly pledges fidelity to "Eternal Rome," an invisible communion with strong resemblance to the "universal and invisible church" of Protestantism.  And, like Protestantism, they arrogate to themselves the authority to interpret and teach both Scripture and Tradition.  There is really no authority to which the bend their will outside of themselves and the "Eternal Rome" in the sky.  You have to be blind not to see all the similarities between the SSPX and Protestantism, except the SSPX, as "Halloween Catholics," put on a better show of playing Catholic while the Protestants (even the High Anglicans) do not. 


It is a constitutive part of Roman Catholicism to be in communion with the Chair of Peter, the Vicar of Christ.  The SSPX recognize this in theory but violate this in practice.  If this were the story of the Good Samaritan, the Church is lying by the side of the road having been mugged by enemies, and the SSPX comes by and not only does not help the Church in Her suffering but loots Her of Her property and goes off to do what they perceive the Church can no longer do.  They are "Halloween Catholics" playing Catholic with the looted goodies that they stole from the Church and use independent of Her.


As long as The Remnant and Catholic Family News continue to give aid and comfort to enemies of the Church like the SSPX, there are no conciliatory gestures that can be made by CMTV that would not also make us complicit in the harm they do to the Church.  If they can "see the light" and not only abandon their support of the SSPX but use their considerable editorial muscle to convince the SSPX of the need to reconcile with the Church for the sake of the Church and their own souls, then we won't really need conciliatory gestures so much as a "welcome home to the Church" party and we can fight as brothers within the Church Militant.  The Prodigal Son was welcomed home by his father once the father saw his son's repentance.  If The Remnant and Catholic Family News will repent of their support of those who sin against the unity of the Church, there is MUCH that we can do together.  But not before.


When this "estrangement" began to surface this past January and February, Michael Voris invited Michael Matt to come to our studio and address all these issues in person rather than through email and telephone calls.  Michael Voris had trips scheduled, and so did Michael Matt, and no meeting occurred.  Maybe you can convince Michael Matt to pick up the phone and call Michael Voris to re-schedule this mutually desired meeting.  Michael is, as I write, on his way back from Rome and not available immediately, but he will be back in the office and able to take calls by Tuesday.  There is much that CMTV and The Remnant and Catholic Family News can do together, but not unless we are all truly Catholic.


God bless you.


Terry Carroll "
Stay away from the near occasion of sin

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Offline Elliott

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Re: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2014, 09:30:15 AM »
I guess he's not very ecumenical. ;D

It becomes more evident everyday that I'm of a different religion than that of the conservative Catholics I used to look up to. It seems that they choose to not see.
 

Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2014, 09:35:08 AM »
:lol:

Terry Carroll is registered here.  He hasnt since been back.  :lol:

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Offline TheKnightVigilant

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Re: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2014, 09:41:19 AM »
The bottom line is that Michael Voris will not criticise Francis because in the Novus Ordo cult, the man occupying the Vatican is God, even when he is not a Catholic. Would you criticise God? Didn't think so. Well, we can't expect Voris and CMTV to criticise their God, can we? If Voris were to speak out against Francis he would be undermining his own faith.

If these people had any love for the Church they would be thanking God that Archbishop Lefebvre almost single-handedly rescued the Church from the brink of destruction. But they don't love the Church. They are psychologically and emotionally dependent upon the cult leader.
 

Offline Lynne

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Re: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2014, 10:13:32 AM »
It was good of you to try, OS...
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline Roland Deschain2

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Re: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2014, 10:21:17 AM »
When you understand that:

Obedience>Faith
Obedience=submitting to ALL commands of the pope, good and evil
pope=God on Earth....

you can understand the sick mind of the neo-Catholic.
"To our personal enemies, according to Christ's commandment, we must forgive everything; but with the enemies of God we cannot have peace!"- Archbishop Averky

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Offline Elizabeth

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Re: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2014, 11:03:28 AM »

  ....The SSPX are, if anything, "Halloween Catholics," i.e. they dress up and play Catholic probably better than most but, at the end of the day, unlike Halloween revelers dressed as Spider Man, they actually believe that they are the characters that they are playing.....



God bless you.


Terry Carroll "

Such ignorance....  But who is the Halloween Catholic.  The N.O ditched  the feast of ALL SAINTS as a Holy Day of Obligation.  So, really and truly, Halloween wins.
 

Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2014, 11:05:41 AM »
The bottom line is that Michael Voris will not criticise Francis because in the Novus Ordo cult, the man occupying the Vatican is God, even when he is not a Catholic. Would you criticise God? Didn't think so.

This ^, yes.


Quote
If these people had any love for the Church they would be thanking God that Archbishop Lefebvre almost single-handedly rescued the Church from the brink of destruction. But they don't love the Church. They are psychologically and emotionally dependent upon the cult leader.

I'll fix that for you.  ;)
 
Quote
If these people had any  love for   knowledge of the Church they would be thanking God that Archbishop Lefebvre almost single-handedly rescued the Church from the brink of destruction. But they don't  love  know  the Church. They are psychologically and emotionally and intellectually dependent upon the cult leader.

It is difficult to love meaningfully what or whom one does not know.  The vast majority of Catholics who follow this cult of personality, or at least the ones who are its fiercest proponents, are adult converts from Protestant fundamentalism.  What they have substituted for Sola Scriptura is Solus Romanus Pontifex.  It's the same mentality, and why (like the sola scriptura crowd), they dismiss doctrine so readily in favor of The Cult.  Cult of the man vs. cult of the book.

I believe Voris is not such a convert.  I thought he was a revert (cradle Catholic).  However, I've seen a similar syndrome play out in some reverts, in that they measure their returning passion/devotion by the degree of their blind loyalty to the Pope.   I can't say what motivates him, except possibly public credibility -- concern about being discredited by mainstream Catholicism.
 

Offline BigMelvin

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Re: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2014, 11:52:11 AM »
The Remnant fails to accept that when you attack the Pope PUBLICLY, as they do in virtually every issue, they are attacking the Church. 

WHOPPER
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Offline Greg

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Re: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2014, 12:17:41 PM »
Would you criticise God?

Of course I would.  Did you not watch Star Trek V?
My preferred pronoun is "he he"
 

Offline Sockpuppet

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Re: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2014, 12:22:51 PM »
Would you criticise God?

Of course I would.  Did you not watch Star Trek V?

Is that the one where Luke finds out Darth Vader is his father?
 

Offline Sojourn

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Re: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2014, 01:01:51 PM »
Peace be with you all,

CMTV expresses another side of the story to the unprecedented situation we are living in, which is essentially Neo-Catholic and still wanting to remain on good terms with Rome. Personally I feel the current Church authority is very much responsible for the mess we are in and some resistance is necessary, even if it be privately rejecting our Holy Father's bizarre comments as quoted in the Newspapers.

I did find Terry's comments about the SSPX simply being "Holloween Catholics" as rather unfortunate and offensive. I am not affiliated with the Society but attacking Catholics who simply want to preserve the faith is extremely distasteful. It would be nice if Trads could unite but in the current state of affairs it seems virtually impossible. We do a lot of talking but little practical action.
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Offline zork

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Re: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2014, 01:29:44 PM »

I don't know that CMTV "bashes" the SSPX so much as subjects them to the same scrutiny that we subject all religious groups that are in error and not in union with the Church in Rome.

Wow, Carroll's words are rank with the stench of hubris.

In the portion of his text that I've isolated here, being ever the typical neocath/neocon papist stooge, he blathers on with a mention of that old canard of 'full communion'. Apparently it's much more tolerable to be complicit with heresy and heterodoxy in order to remain in "full communion" than it is to call out the Pope(?) when he is in error.

Carroll and all his ilk are clearly the enemy.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 01:33:22 PM by zork »
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Offline Gerard

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Re: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2014, 02:56:29 PM »
Pope = a man who happens to occupy and office.

Papacy = an office Divinely Instituted by Christ.

Attacking the office would be to attack the Church.  You can't criticize the office itself since it is what it is. 

You can criticize the holder of the office and in doing so defend the Church because the man himself can be failing in his duty to that office and be attacking the Church itself and attacking his own office. 

So, to defend the man in the office who attacks the Church and the papacy is to be complicit in the attack on the Church. 

In other words you would be an accessory to the sin of the Pope who attacks the Church by silence or consent. 

So, the silence of CMTV and the attacks against defenders of the Church like the Remant and CFN is to attack the Church. 

 

Offline 1seeker

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Re: Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2014, 02:59:10 PM »
What they have substituted for Sola Scriptura is Solus Romanus Pontifex.  It's the same mentality, and why (like the sola scriptura crowd), they dismiss doctrine so readily in favor of The Cult.  Cult of the man vs. cult of the book.
Solus Pontifex, perfect! This is the heresy these people are practicing, a new and heretofore unknown mutation of proper doctrine.

I suppose that in the 4th century these people would stick with Liberius, and excoriate S.Athanasius as a non-catholic.