Author Topic: Why can't trads get along?  (Read 56342 times)

Offline Basilios

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Re: Why can't trads get along?
« Reply #330 on: September 21, 2014, 03:25:12 PM »
jews buddhists and muzzies do not qualify as invincabley ignorent because they acknowledge the existence Of Jesus

Knowing Christ and knowing about Christ are two completely different things

If you go this route you go full-blown Bogus Ordo doctrine.

If people reallyknew Christ they'd be Christians so they definitely don't know the realChrist and thus be invincibly ignorant ----> out of the mouths of many an NO apologist!

I would say that Voxx is actually wrong though; he understates what Muslims and Jews do, they don't acknowledge Christ at all. In fact, they blaspheme Him purposefully rejecting Who He Is as Christ. It's not even a simple matter of "Oh there was someone name Jesus few thousand years ago?" it's an explicit rejection of Jesus Christ and His claims.

And can we please remember that invincible ignorance only excuses someone of a sin against faith. That's it. It isn't license to do whatever Pagans/Muslims/Jews do in other moral areas. It only excuses sins against faith.
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Offline Chestertonian

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Re: Why can't trads get along?
« Reply #331 on: September 21, 2014, 03:42:36 PM »
I know that before I became Christian I realized what I knew of Christ and the catholic faith and the reality of Christ and the catholic faith were two differethings
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Offline Basilios

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Re: Why can't trads get along?
« Reply #332 on: September 21, 2014, 03:55:00 PM »
I know that before I became Christian I realized what I knew of Christ and the catholic faith and the reality of Christ and the catholic faith were two differethings

That made you ignorant not invincibly ignorant.
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Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Why can't trads get along?
« Reply #333 on: September 21, 2014, 11:03:16 PM »
The uselessness of the discussion of "invincible ignorance" is that it applies to so few people, imho.
Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

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Offline Stranger

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Re: Why can't trads get along?
« Reply #334 on: September 22, 2014, 04:21:03 AM »
I would say that Voxx is actually wrong though; he understates what Muslims and Jews do, they don't acknowledge Christ at all. In fact, they blaspheme Him purposefully rejecting Who He Is as Christ. It's not even a simple matter of "Oh there was someone name Jesus few thousand years ago?" it's an explicit rejection of Jesus Christ and His claims.

Yes, both the Koran and the Talmud engage in blasphemy against Christ. And St John is very explicit in the way he calls those who do so.

And can we please remember that invincible ignorance only excuses someone of a sin against faith. That's it. It isn't license to do whatever Pagans/Muslims/Jews do in other moral areas. It only excuses sins against faith.

Yes, many forget this, and they also forget that it is infallible doctrine that the Catholic Faith is necessary for salvation and for the forgiveness of sins, so a Muslim, who does not have the True Faith, cannot receive forgiveness of sins, cannot be in a state of grace and cannot be saved, whether he is invincibly ignorant or not. He cannot love that which he does not know, or especially that which he rejects. As you said, the only thing invincible ignorance does for him is to excuse him of the sin against faith.

If a person truly seeks God, then God will show the truth to him. But if he dies a pagan, Muslim, Jew, heretic or schismatic, he will be lost. It is not me saying it. It is the infallible teaching of the Catholic Church.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 04:35:44 AM by Stranger »
 

Offline The Curt Jester

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Re: Why can't trads get along?
« Reply #335 on: September 22, 2014, 01:24:18 PM »
Having had much time to ponder this thought-provoking question, I have finally hit upon the answer.   

The answer is simple in that one single picture can explain what the cause of contention is, though it cannot provide the answers. 



The royal feast was done; the King
Sought some new sport to banish care,
And to his jester cried: "Sir Fool,
Kneel now, and make for us a prayer!"

The jester doffed his cap and bells,
And stood the mocking court before;
They could not see the bitter smile
Behind the painted grin he wore.

He bowed his head, and bent his knee
Upon the Monarch's silken stool;
His pleading voice arose: "O Lord,
Be merciful to me, a fool!"
 

Offline voxxpopulisuxx

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Re: Why can't trads get along?
« Reply #336 on: September 22, 2014, 11:23:48 PM »
jews buddhists and muzzies do not qualify as invincabley ignorent because they acknowledge the existence Of Jesus

Knowing Christ and knowing about Christ are two completely different things

If you go this route you go full-blown Bogus Ordo doctrine.

If people reallyknew Christ they'd be Christians so they definitely don't know the realChrist and thus be invincibly ignorant ----> out of the mouths of many an NO apologist!

I would say that Voxx is actually wrong though; he understates what Muslims and Jews do, they don't acknowledge Christ at all. In fact, they blaspheme Him purposefully rejecting Who He Is as Christ. It's not even a simple matter of "Oh there was someone name Jesus few thousand years ago?" it's an explicit rejection of Jesus Christ and His claims.

And can we please remember that invincible ignorance only excuses someone of a sin against faith. That's it. It isn't license to do whatever Pagans/Muslims/Jews do in other moral areas. It only excuses sins against faith.
I am not wrong....if you know the salvivic name of Jesus Christ...except him or not...you can no longer claim invincable Ignorence...His name in an of itself is holy....a holiness that does not require the hearers assent to remain so. To be invincibly ignorant is not about being misinformed...it is about never hearing or seeing or experiencing Christ throught the church,,,but still acting as Christ would from within your conscience...even though you never saw or heard a thing..not even his name...about Christ.
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Offline Vanna Grace

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Re: Why can't trads get along?
« Reply #337 on: September 23, 2014, 02:56:14 PM »
Having had much time to ponder this thought-provoking question, I have finally hit upon the answer.   

The answer is simple in that one single picture can explain what the cause of contention is, though it cannot provide the answers. 





 :laugh:
 

Offline JubilateDeo

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Re: Why can't trads get along?
« Reply #338 on: September 23, 2014, 06:52:50 PM »
Having had much time to ponder this thought-provoking question, I have finally hit upon the answer.   

The answer is simple in that one single picture can explain what the cause of contention is, though it cannot provide the answers. 





Hahahahahahaha :)

Those are too flared.  I prefer boot cut.  Although dresses are better for hiding postpartum paunch.
 

Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Why can't trads get along?
« Reply #339 on: September 23, 2014, 09:02:28 PM »
jews buddhists and muzzies do not qualify as invincabley ignorent because they acknowledge the existence Of Jesus

Knowing Christ and knowing about Christ are two completely different things

If you go this route you go full-blown Bogus Ordo doctrine.

If people reallyknew Christ they'd be Christians so they definitely don't know the realChrist and thus be invincibly ignorant ----> out of the mouths of many an NO apologist!

I would say that Voxx is actually wrong though; he understates what Muslims and Jews do, they don't acknowledge Christ at all. In fact, they blaspheme Him purposefully rejecting Who He Is as Christ. It's not even a simple matter of "Oh there was someone name Jesus few thousand years ago?" it's an explicit rejection of Jesus Christ and His claims.

And can we please remember that invincible ignorance only excuses someone of a sin against faith. That's it. It isn't license to do whatever Pagans/Muslims/Jews do in other moral areas. It only excuses sins against faith.
I am not wrong....if you know the salvivic name of Jesus Christ...except him or not...you can no longer claim invincable Ignorence...His name in an of itself is holy....a holiness that does not require the hearers assent to remain so. To be invincibly ignorant is not about being misinformed...it is about never hearing or seeing or experiencing Christ throught the church,,,but still acting as Christ would from within your conscience...even though you never saw or heard a thing..not even his name...about Christ.
It is impossible to say to what extent a person is laboring under "invincible ignorance" or not.  That is in the realm of the conscience, a realm that only God can truly enter into.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 06:15:16 PM by Michael Wilson »
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Offline Greg

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Re: Why can't trads get along?
« Reply #340 on: September 24, 2014, 05:51:51 AM »
Jeanetic differences.