Author Topic: Placing Scapulars on dying people  (Read 4475 times)

Offline Theophilus

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Placing Scapulars on dying people
« on: September 17, 2014, 11:08:58 PM »
Is it okay to put a scapular on a person who is dying in front of you?  It would be a case where you don't know the person, they are probably not Catholic and most likely don't have devotion to Our Lady.  I'm thinking of a nurse, EMT, doctor, fireman, or policeman who sees people die in their line of work.   Is it wrong?  It seems wrong since they didn't actually have devotion to Mary.
Thanks.
"Only little children and those who are like them shall be admitted to the Heavenly Banquet."–St. Therese of Lisieux
"Because he hath therefore scattered you among the Gentiles, who know not him, that you may declare his wonderful works, and make them know that there is no other Almighty God besides him."
 

Offline dymphna17

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Re: Placing Scapulars on dying people
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2014, 11:12:11 PM »
It is wrong.  People have to be enrolled by a Priest to the brown scapular.  Using a green scapular, placing it under a pillow or mattress, would not however.  There is no enrollment qualification for a green scapular.  This would possibly help the person to have a death bed conversion.
ن
I adore Thee O Christ, and I bless Thee, because by Thy holy cross Thou hast redeemed the world!

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph save souls!

Of course I wear jeans, "The tornadoes can make dresses immodest." RSC

“Don’t waste time in your life trying to get even with your enemies. The grave is a tremendous equalizer. Six weeks after you all are dead, you’ll look pretty much the same. Let the Lord take care of those whom you think have harmed you. All you have to do is love and forgive. Try to forget and leave all else to the Master.”– Mother Angelica
 

Offline Theophilus

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Re: Placing Scapulars on dying people
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2014, 11:17:25 PM »
It is wrong.  People have to be enrolled by a Priest to the brown scapular.  Using a green scapular, placing it under a pillow or mattress, would not however.  There is no enrollment qualification for a green scapular.  This would possibly help the person to have a death bed conversion.
Thanks so much.  I think I may carry a green scapular then and suggest it to my family members who work in healthcare, also. 
"Only little children and those who are like them shall be admitted to the Heavenly Banquet."–St. Therese of Lisieux
"Because he hath therefore scattered you among the Gentiles, who know not him, that you may declare his wonderful works, and make them know that there is no other Almighty God besides him."
 

Offline JubilateDeo

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Re: Placing Scapulars on dying people
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2014, 12:30:24 AM »
This is why I don't "get" the scapular, or Carmelite stuff in general.

I can understand how Our Lady would help that soul to get to Heaven through the Scapular because it is part of their Marian devotion.  But what good is it if the soul doesn't willfully desire union with our Lord through Mary? 

 

Offline Penelope

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Re: Placing Scapulars on dying people
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2014, 01:03:11 AM »
It is wrong.  People have to be enrolled by a Priest to the brown scapular.  Using a green scapular, placing it under a pillow or mattress, would not however.  There is no enrollment qualification for a green scapular.  This would possibly help the person to have a death bed conversion.
Thanks so much.  I think I may carry a green scapular then and suggest it to my family members who work in healthcare, also.

Get it blessed first.
 

Offline Lydia Purpuraria

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Re: Placing Scapulars on dying people
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2014, 08:02:36 AM »
This is why I don't "get" the scapular, or Carmelite stuff in general.

I can understand how Our Lady would help that soul to get to Heaven through the Scapular because it is part of their Marian devotion.  But what good is it if the soul doesn't willfully desire union with our Lord through Mary?

As far as the Brown Scapular goes, it wouldn't do much good in and of itself, because the enrollment in and wearing of the Brown Scapular is supposed to mean the wearer has a devotion to Our Lady and is wearing it as a sign of their Faith and devotion. It will do a wearer no good if they are not actively trying to live their Faith and grow in devotion to the Blessed Mother.

The green scapular is something else, though. As someone else said, one does not have to be enrolled to wear it properly. Being that it is related to health and conversion, it would be an appropriate sacramental to pray for graces to accompany its presence for the health and conversion of the person you intend it for.
http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/green-scapular4.htm
 

Offline Yankee

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Re: Placing Scapulars on dying people
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2014, 03:26:35 PM »
Maybe it isn't helpful, but I can't see how it is "wrong". I heard a story about a man seeing a car accident victim near death and he consecrated the unconscious man to Padre Pio- the man later recovering and converting.
"What bad taste You have, Lord, to love me, hideous as I am; but do not, on any account, change that bad taste, lest I be exposed to the danger of Your putting an angel in my place." -St Teresa
 

Offline dymphna17

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Re: Placing Scapulars on dying people
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2014, 05:33:10 PM »
Maybe it isn't helpful, but I can't see how it is "wrong". I heard a story about a man seeing a car accident victim near death and he consecrated the unconscious man to Padre Pio- the man later recovering and converting.

Yes, but in that case, the man didn't die and go to heaven due to the promises given for the scapular.  It may have helped, along with St Pio, to convert him but that's not part of the blessing given.
ن
I adore Thee O Christ, and I bless Thee, because by Thy holy cross Thou hast redeemed the world!

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph save souls!

Of course I wear jeans, "The tornadoes can make dresses immodest." RSC

“Don’t waste time in your life trying to get even with your enemies. The grave is a tremendous equalizer. Six weeks after you all are dead, you’ll look pretty much the same. Let the Lord take care of those whom you think have harmed you. All you have to do is love and forgive. Try to forget and leave all else to the Master.”– Mother Angelica
 

Offline Yankee

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Re: Placing Scapulars on dying people
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2014, 11:24:28 AM »
Maybe it isn't helpful, but I can't see how it is "wrong". I heard a story about a man seeing a car accident victim near death and he consecrated the unconscious man to Padre Pio- the man later recovering and converting.

Yes, but in that case, the man didn't die and go to heaven due to the promises given for the scapular.  It may have helped, along with St Pio, to convert him but that's not part of the blessing given.
I agree. I am not saying that the person is/is not covered by any grace from the Scapular. But I still don't think it's wrong. I can't see how using a Sacramental, in faith, is wrong. It may not give the full benefits (or any at all), but I just don't think it's wrong.

As for the Padre Pio incident, my point is that the person live and converted most likely due to the intercession. Perhaps the same could happen with the use of Sacramentals?
"What bad taste You have, Lord, to love me, hideous as I am; but do not, on any account, change that bad taste, lest I be exposed to the danger of Your putting an angel in my place." -St Teresa
 

Offline Daniel

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Re: Placing Scapulars on dying people
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2014, 07:02:07 PM »
Maybe it isn't helpful, but I can't see how it is "wrong". I heard a story about a man seeing a car accident victim near death and he consecrated the unconscious man to Padre Pio- the man later recovering and converting.

Yes, but in that case, the man didn't die and go to heaven due to the promises given for the scapular.  It may have helped, along with St Pio, to convert him but that's not part of the blessing given.
I agree. I am not saying that the person is/is not covered by any grace from the Scapular. But I still don't think it's wrong. I can't see how using a Sacramental, in faith, is wrong. It may not give the full benefits (or any at all), but I just don't think it's wrong.
I have heard this before and I think I agree.  As long as you aren't doing it for superstitious reasons, and as long as you don't have any real reason to believe that the dying person is going to recover and react negatively and do something bad after learning that a Catholic put a religious item on him (e.g. if you know he's an anti-Catholic and he might become angry and move even further from the faith or desecrate the item then it's probably not very prudent to put it on him), then I really don't see how simply putting a brown scapular or some other sacramental on a dying person while asking for Our Lady's intercession could be "wrong".  I mean, the green scapular would be much more appropriate, but even so, I really don't think using the brown scapular in that way would qualify as a sacrilege.
 

Offline Theophilus

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Re: Placing Scapulars on dying people
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2014, 03:06:32 PM »
It is wrong.  People have to be enrolled by a Priest to the brown scapular.  Using a green scapular, placing it under a pillow or mattress, would not however.  There is no enrollment qualification for a green scapular.  This would possibly help the person to have a death bed conversion.
Thanks so much.  I think I may carry a green scapular then and suggest it to my family members who work in healthcare, also.

Get it blessed first.
Thank you for the reminder, I would have probably forgotten.
"Only little children and those who are like them shall be admitted to the Heavenly Banquet."–St. Therese of Lisieux
"Because he hath therefore scattered you among the Gentiles, who know not him, that you may declare his wonderful works, and make them know that there is no other Almighty God besides him."
 

Offline Yankee

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Re: Placing Scapulars on dying people
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2014, 03:56:22 PM »
Maybe it isn't helpful, but I can't see how it is "wrong". I heard a story about a man seeing a car accident victim near death and he consecrated the unconscious man to Padre Pio- the man later recovering and converting.

Yes, but in that case, the man didn't die and go to heaven due to the promises given for the scapular.  It may have helped, along with St Pio, to convert him but that's not part of the blessing given.
I agree. I am not saying that the person is/is not covered by any grace from the Scapular. But I still don't think it's wrong. I can't see how using a Sacramental, in faith, is wrong. It may not give the full benefits (or any at all), but I just don't think it's wrong.
I have heard this before and I think I agree.  As long as you aren't doing it for superstitious reasons, and as long as you don't have any real reason to believe that the dying person is going to recover and react negatively and do something bad after learning that a Catholic put a religious item on him (e.g. if you know he's an anti-Catholic and he might become angry and move even further from the faith or desecrate the item then it's probably not very prudent to put it on him), then I really don't see how simply putting a brown scapular or some other sacramental on a dying person while asking for Our Lady's intercession could be "wrong".  I mean, the green scapular would be much more appropriate, but even so, I really don't think using the brown scapular in that way would qualify as a sacrilege.

I concur with everything you wrote. Your one comment reminds me of Joan Crawford's dying words:

On the morning of Tuesday May 10, 1977 – Joan was at the end. Two women (probably fans) were looking her after. They weren’t nurses. She had been bedridden for months. One of the women arrived at 8am, to take over watching Joan. When the woman realized that Joan was dying, she began praying softly, then a bit louder. Joan heard the words, and said, "Dammit, don’t you dare ask God to help me." She died shortly after that.
"What bad taste You have, Lord, to love me, hideous as I am; but do not, on any account, change that bad taste, lest I be exposed to the danger of Your putting an angel in my place." -St Teresa
 

Offline Daniel

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Re: Placing Scapulars on dying people
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2014, 08:49:48 AM »
Maybe it isn't helpful, but I can't see how it is "wrong". I heard a story about a man seeing a car accident victim near death and he consecrated the unconscious man to Padre Pio- the man later recovering and converting.

Yes, but in that case, the man didn't die and go to heaven due to the promises given for the scapular.  It may have helped, along with St Pio, to convert him but that's not part of the blessing given.
I agree. I am not saying that the person is/is not covered by any grace from the Scapular. But I still don't think it's wrong. I can't see how using a Sacramental, in faith, is wrong. It may not give the full benefits (or any at all), but I just don't think it's wrong.
I have heard this before and I think I agree.  As long as you aren't doing it for superstitious reasons, and as long as you don't have any real reason to believe that the dying person is going to recover and react negatively and do something bad after learning that a Catholic put a religious item on him (e.g. if you know he's an anti-Catholic and he might become angry and move even further from the faith or desecrate the item then it's probably not very prudent to put it on him), then I really don't see how simply putting a brown scapular or some other sacramental on a dying person while asking for Our Lady's intercession could be "wrong".  I mean, the green scapular would be much more appropriate, but even so, I really don't think using the brown scapular in that way would qualify as a sacrilege.

I concur with everything you wrote. Your one comment reminds me of Joan Crawford's dying words:

On the morning of Tuesday May 10, 1977 – Joan was at the end. Two women (probably fans) were looking her after. They weren’t nurses. She had been bedridden for months. One of the women arrived at 8am, to take over watching Joan. When the woman realized that Joan was dying, she began praying softly, then a bit louder. Joan heard the words, and said, "Dammit, don’t you dare ask God to help me." She died shortly after that.
But in that situation, the best thing to do actually would be to pray for her.