Author Topic: §"The Society of St. John: EXPLOITING TRADITIONALIST ORDERS" («Rite of Sodomy»)  (Read 12358 times)

Offline Geremia

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from Randy Engel's Rite of Sodomy vol. 4 pp. 954 (PDF pp. 224) ff.

I knew that the FSSP's all-boys St. Gregory’s Academy high school shut down because of some controversy, but I didn't know the full story why: they let Fr. Urrutigoity et al. of the Society of St. John infiltrate it.

I can't believe Bp. Williamson didn't detect the seminarian Urrutigoity to be a sodomite, and Bp. de Galarreta even supported Urrutigoity against Fr. Morello, who expelled him from the seminary in Argentina, urged Bp. Williamson not to ordain him, and who, according to Bp. Williamson, had sedevacantist ties against Bp. de Galarreta. Abp. Lefebvre, God bless him, reviewed Fr. Morello's dossier and told Bp. Williamson et al. to watch Urrutigoity "like a hawk." Bp. Fellay later expelled Fr. Urrutigoity from the SSPX, Deo gratias, because he detected a "strange personal, guru-like attachment between the disciples and their leader."

In the next section, Mrs. Engel covers Marcial Maciel. He was ordained by his uncle, a bishop (talk about nepotism) who later suspended him a divinis! At least nine accusations were leveled against him, yet the Vatican still didn't care! Did JPII ever do anything against him?

Rite of Sodomy vol. 5 goes over Paul VI's alleged homosexuality. PDF p. 72 (p. 1151) gives a very good argument against Humanæ Vitæ. She mentions how the 6 year long (why so long?) Birth Control Commission, which was responsible only to Paul VI, created a climate that the Church's teaching was doubtful and that it was going to change, and "lex dubia non obligat." No wonder priests actually told married confessors they could contracept soon!

S. Petre Damiane, ora pro nobis!

Offline Maximilian

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I knew that the FSSP's all-boys St. Gregory’s Academy high school shut down because of some controversy, but I didn't know the full story why: they let Fr. Urrutigoity et al. of the Society of St. John infiltrate it.


It is very important to be careful and precise with our statements since sins of the tongue are mortal sins if the matter is grave.

St. Gregory's Academy shut down in 2012 because there were not enough traditional parents or traditional teachers to support the school. The lawsuit against the Society of St. John was filed more than 10 years previously in 2002. Certainly the situation with the SSJ did not help the growth of the school, but that is not the reason why it closed.

Also, virtually all different traditional groups were duped by Carlos Urrutigoity. He was -- and still is down in Argentina -- a very successful con man. But it is wrong to imply that those who were duped by him were a party to his sins/crimes.


I can't believe Bp. Williamson didn't detect the seminarian Urrutigoity to be a sodomite, and Bp. de Galarreta even supported Urrutigoity against Fr. Morello, who expelled him from the seminary in Argentina, urged Bp. Williamson not to ordain him, and who, according to Bp. Williamson, had sedevacantist ties against Bp. de Galarreta. Abp. Lefebvre, God bless him, reviewed Fr. Morello's dossier and told Bp. Williamson et al. to watch Urrutigoity "like a hawk." Bp. Fellay later expelled Fr. Urrutigoity from the SSPX, Deo gratias, because he detected a "strange personal, guru-like attachment between the disciples and their leader."


In a single paragraph you manage to contradict yourself more than once and spread slander against the names of several traditional priests and bishops. The fact is that Bishop Williamson did expel Carlos Urrutigoity from the seminary. He was also expelled from the seminary in Argentina. The SSPX did its job. It's not clear what you find so hard to believe about that.


In the next section, Mrs. Engel covers Marcial Maciel. He was ordained by his uncle, a bishop (talk about nepotism) who later suspended him a divinis! At least nine accusations were leveled against him, yet the Vatican still didn't care! Did JPII ever do anything against him?


It's not right to drag so many names into a discussion about serious sins so that all of them get tarred with the same brush. If there is credible proof about the crimes of Marciel Maciel, and there is some reason why you believe that some spiritual good could come out of discussing it, then discuss that issue separately, without mentioning the names of numerous traditional bishops and priests who had nothing whatsoever to do with Marciel Maciel. It damages their good name when you link them together like that, even though there is not the slightest connection between them.


Rite of Sodomy vol. 5 goes over Paul VI's alleged homosexuality. PDF p. 72 (p. 1151) gives a very good argument against Humanæ Vitæ. She mentions how the 6 year long (why so long?) Birth Control Commission, which was responsible only to Paul VI, created a climate that the Church's teaching was doubtful and that it was going to change, and "lex dubia non obligat." No wonder priests actually told married confessors they could contracept soon!

S. Petre Damiane, ora pro nobis!


This is an interesting topic which is worth discussing. However, this thread should be closed so that there is no further damage to the good name of traditional priests and bishops who did nothing wrong, and the issue of Humanae Vitae should be debated in a separate thread. Otherwise, every time someone responds to the argument about Humanae Vitae they are bumping the material which is a slander against the reputations of traditional priests and bishops.
 

Offline Geremia

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St. Gregory's Academy shut down in 2012 because there were not enough traditional parents or traditional teachers to support the school. The lawsuit against the Society of St. John was filed more than 10 years previously in 2002. Certainly the situation with the SSJ did not help the growth of the school, but that is not the reason why it closed.
It was a reason, though.
Also, virtually all different traditional groups were duped by Carlos Urrutigoity. He was -- and still is down in Argentina -- a very successful con man. But it is wrong to imply that those who were duped by him were a party to his sins/crimes.
What makes you think I'm implying that?
In a single paragraph you manage to contradict yourself more than once and spread slander against the names of several traditional priests and bishops. The fact is that Bishop Williamson did expel Carlos Urrutigoity from the seminary. He was also expelled from the seminary in Argentina. The SSPX did its job. It's not clear what you find so hard to believe about that.
What is hard to believe is the insidiousness of sodomite infiltrators. I have no intention to nor do I want to defame the good bishops.

The spiritual good that comes from discussing this is that it shows
  • sins against nature are so grave that they destroy schools, religious institutions, etc.
  • even the best, most orthodox bishops in the Church can be deceived by sodomites
  • thus, one cannot fault John Paul II as much for mismanagement of the crisis

Offline Maximilian

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St. Gregory's Academy shut down in 2012 because there were not enough traditional parents or traditional teachers to support the school. The lawsuit against the Society of St. John was filed more than 10 years previously in 2002. Certainly the situation with the SSJ did not help the growth of the school, but that is not the reason why it closed.
It was a reason, though.


The headmaster of St. Gregory's says that they didn't lose even one student at that time. They closed 10 years later. We should avoid doing the devil's work for him by spreading slander.

http://stgregoryshistory.wordpress.com/interview-with-alan-hicks/

"Despite all the negative attacks broadcast on the Internet, the overwhelming response of the Academy parents, all of whom knew me and Mr. Clark personally, was supportive, as their many letters gave witness. I don’t believe we lost even one student as a result of these claims, which speaks to their confidence in us. I should also add that during this time, Mr. Clark and I met and communicated regularly with an advisory group of experienced legal and educational professionals to seek their guidance in how to proceed."


Also, virtually all different traditional groups were duped by Carlos Urrutigoity. He was -- and still is down in Argentina -- a very successful con man. But it is wrong to imply that those who were duped by him were a party to his sins/crimes.

What makes you think I'm implying that?


Because that is not just the implication but the direct message of all those who have profited from publishing this disreputable material. They are trying to spread pitch on all traditionalists by using a case like the SSJ to create scenarios of "6 degrees of separation" every other traditionalist.


In a single paragraph you manage to contradict yourself more than once and spread slander against the names of several traditional priests and bishops. The fact is that Bishop Williamson did expel Carlos Urrutigoity from the seminary. He was also expelled from the seminary in Argentina. The SSPX did its job. It's not clear what you find so hard to believe about that.
What is hard to believe is the insidiousness of sodomite infiltrators. I have no intention to nor do I want to defame the good bishops.

The spiritual good that comes from discussing this is that it shows
  • sins against nature are so grave that they destroy schools, religious institutions, etc.
  • even the best, most orthodox bishops in the Church can be deceived by sodomites
  • thus, one cannot fault John Paul II as much for mismanagement of the crisis

These are valid points. I think it's an issue of carefulness regarding how one handles such accusations. You can never be too careful.

Imagine that I work in a hospital and I have to deal with infected dressings from sick patients. I would be extremely careful not to be sloppy with my handling of them, to avoid infection of myself, but also to avoid contaminating other patients by spreading disease.

Similarly, if I am discussing the sins of one person, it is gravely incumbent on me not to drag into the discussion the names of others who committed no sins. Once the damage is done, it is irreparable.
 

Offline VeraeFidei

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Thank you, Maximilian. You need to check yourself, Geremia.
 

Offline Geremia

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So, we should just cover-up what really happened for fear of "slander"?

Offline Gardener

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Re: §"The Society of St. John: EXPLOITING TRADITIONALIST ORDERS"
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2014, 09:27:36 PM »
So, we should just cover-up what really happened for fear of "slander"?

How about we let the people in a position of competency deal with things and worry ourselves less about things we can't control and more about that which we can...
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Offline Arun

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Re: §"The Society of St. John: EXPLOITING TRADITIONALIST ORDERS"
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2014, 09:33:16 PM »
So, we should just cover-up what really happened for fear of "slander"?

How about we let the people in a position of competency deal with things and worry ourselves less about things we can't control and more about that which we can...

yarp


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Offline Geremia

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Re: §"The Society of St. John: EXPLOITING TRADITIONALIST ORDERS"
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2014, 10:18:21 PM »
How about we let the people in a position of competency deal with things and worry ourselves less about things we can't control and more about that which we can...
They cover it up, too!

Offline Heinrich

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Re: §"The Society of St. John: EXPLOITING TRADITIONALIST ORDERS"
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2014, 10:30:23 PM »
So, we should just cover-up what really happened for fear of "slander"?

How about we let the people in a position of competency deal with things and worry ourselves less about things we can't control and more about that which we can...

yarp

LOL! "Yarp." Love it!
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Offline Elizabeth

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So, we should just cover-up what really happened for fear of "slander"?

Absolutely not.

  No fear of slander if one is careful of words.
The SSJ caused huge and lasting problems, as all such wicked and perverse groups do when they get their hands on tons of money and impressionable boys.
 

Offline Heinrich

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Anyone care to run down the main points as to the whos and whats of Society of St. JOhn?
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Offline erin is nice

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In a single paragraph you manage to contradict yourself more than once and spread slander against the names of several traditional priests and bishops. The fact is that Bishop Williamson did expel Carlos Urrutigoity from the seminary. He was also expelled from the seminary in Argentina. The SSPX did its job. It's not clear what you find so hard to believe about that.

Are you sure he wasn't ordained by the SSPX?
 

Offline Kaesekopf

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I swear I've read that the then-argentinian rector for the sspx asked bp Williamson to not ordain urrutigoity but Williamson ignored him and ordained him at winona.
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Offline erin is nice

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I swear I've read that the then-argentinian rector for the sspx asked bp Williamson to not ordain urrutigoity but Williamson ignored him and ordained him at winona.

I'm pretty sure he was ordained by the SSPX. As someone who has met him, I can see why people were not suspicious of him, because he isn't one of those people who immediately strikes you as a weirdo.