Author Topic: CDF Prefect Müller: "Lefebvrians are de facto schismatic"  (Read 8339 times)

Offline Geremia

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CDF Prefect Müller: "Lefebvrians are de facto schismatic"
« on: December 22, 2013, 11:47:44 PM »
CDF Prefect Müller: "Lefebvrians are de facto schismatic", Liberation Theology founder "has always been orthodox"

From the interview granted by the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Abp. Gerhard Müller, to Italian daily Corriere della Sera, published this Sunday:

Quote
With the failure of discussions, what is the position of the Lefebvrians?

"The canonical excommunication due to the illicit [episcopal] ordination was lifted from the bishops, but the sacramental one remains, de facto, for the schism; because they have removed themselves away from communion with the Church. That being said, we do not close the door, ever, and we invite them to reconcile. But they also must change their approach and accept the conditions of the Catholic Church, and the Supreme Pontiff as the ultimate criterion of membership."

What can you say about the meeting between Francis and [Fr. Gustavo] Gutiérrez on September 11?

"Theological currents go through difficult moments, things are debated and clarified. But Gutiérrez has always been orthodox. We Europeans must get over the notion of being the center, without, on the other hand, underestimating ourselves. To broaden the horizons, to find a balance: I have learned this from him. Opening up to a concrete experience: seeing povery and also the joy of the people. A Latin American Pope has been a heavenly sign. Gustavo was overwhelmed. I was as well. And also Francis."

(Source, in Italian; tip: Il Blog di Raffaella)

Offline tmw89

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Re: CDF Prefect Müller: "Lefebvrians are de facto schismatic"
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2013, 11:52:03 PM »
 :rofl:

Too much, too much!

Archbishop Lefebvre's Society is schismatic?  And the NO sect is not.

Of course.

As for the remarks concerning the liberation "theology" founder, that's just the icing on this parody of a cake.
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Offline james03

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Re: CDF Prefect Müller: "Lefebvrians are de facto schismatic"
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2013, 11:17:11 AM »
Muller is a raving heretic who denies the Resurrection.  Being called a schismatic by him is truly a badge of honor.
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: CDF Prefect Müller: "Lefebvrians are de facto schismatic"
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2013, 12:01:31 PM »
Getting wierder and wierderer.
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Offline dust

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Abp. muller on the SSPX
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2013, 01:11:51 PM »
"The Truth is still the Truth, even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it." ++ Venerable Archbishop Fulton Sheen
"Memento, homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris"
 

Offline ADMG

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Re: Abp. muller on the SSPX
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2013, 01:21:37 PM »
This has already been posted.

Though I'll agree, the distinction "general Catholic" vs "traditional Catholic" discussion isn't all that easy. Bishop Fellay launching a rosary crusade is in general, "How do we know the Catholic Church is right?" is in traditional Catholic discussion.
 

Offline Jayne

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Re: CDF Prefect Müller: "Lefebvrians are de facto schismatic"
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2013, 01:52:01 PM »
Pope Francis, knowingly or not, has pretty much declared open season on trads.  I expect to see more and more comments like this throughout his papacy.
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Offline dust

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Re: Abp. muller on the SSPX
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2013, 03:00:03 PM »
my apologies, did not see it.
"The Truth is still the Truth, even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it." ++ Venerable Archbishop Fulton Sheen
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Offline dust

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Re: CDF Prefect Müller: "Lefebvrians are de facto schismatic"
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2013, 03:03:35 PM »
CDF Prefect Müller: "Lefebvrians are de facto schismatic", Liberation Theology founder "has always been orthodox"

From the interview granted by the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Abp. Gerhard Müller, to Italian daily Corriere della Sera, published this Sunday:

Quote
With the failure of discussions, what is the position of the Lefebvrians?

"The canonical excommunication due to the illicit [episcopal] ordination was lifted from the bishops, but the sacramental one remains, de facto, for the schism; because they have removed themselves away from communion with the Church. That being said, we do not close the door, ever, and we invite them to reconcile. But they also must change their approach and accept the conditions of the Catholic Church, and the Supreme Pontiff as the ultimate criterion of membership."

What can you say about the meeting between Francis and [Fr. Gustavo] Gutiérrez on September 11?

"Theological currents go through difficult moments, things are debated and clarified. But Gutiérrez has always been orthodox. We Europeans must get over the notion of being the center, without, on the other hand, underestimating ourselves. To broaden the horizons, to find a balance: I have learned this from him. Opening up to a concrete experience: seeing povery and also the joy of the people. A Latin American Pope has been a heavenly sign. Gustavo was overwhelmed. I was as well. And also Francis."

(Source, in Italian; tip: Il Blog di Raffaella)

Got to love it. And there is nothing wrong with charismatics, the neocatechumenal way, or any of the other wack jobs pretending to still be Catholic. Amazing piece of crap, this. But at least the Abp. is letting us know exactly how the lines are being drawn.
"The Truth is still the Truth, even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it." ++ Venerable Archbishop Fulton Sheen
"Memento, homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris"
 

Offline Arun

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Re: CDF Prefect Müller: "Lefebvrians are de facto schismatic"
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2013, 03:09:23 PM »
Muller never fails to spout f#&ked up garbage...


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Offline Bonaventure

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Re: CDF Prefect Müller: "Lefebvrians are de facto schismatic"
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2013, 03:45:29 PM »
Good. It's an honor and privilege to be in schism from the new sect in Rome.
 

Offline Parresia

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Re: CDF Prefect Müller: "Lefebvrians are de facto schismatic"
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2013, 03:59:55 PM »
And there is nothing wrong with charismatics, the neocatechumenal way, or any of the other wack jobs pretending to still be Catholic. Amazing piece of crap, this. But at least the Abp. is letting us know exactly how the lines are being drawn.

Exactly. 
 

Offline SouthpawLink

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Re: CDF Prefect Müller: "Lefebvrians are de facto schismatic"
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2013, 04:23:23 PM »
Good. It's an honor and privilege to be in schism from the new sect in Rome.

Yes, yes it is.
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Contrast the above with the 1983 CIC, Can. 844 §3 & 4: "Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church. . . .  If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church." — The phrase "properly disposed" does not save the canon from error, because the context shows that no conversion is expected on the part of non-Catholics ("manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments" is the sole requirement).
 

Offline Archer

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Re: CDF Prefect Müller: "Lefebvrians are de facto schismatic"
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2013, 05:26:05 PM »
Topics merged.
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Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Abp. muller on the SSPX
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2013, 06:11:57 PM »
This has already been posted.

Though I'll agree, the distinction "general Catholic" vs "traditional Catholic" discussion isn't all that easy. Bishop Fellay launching a rosary crusade is in general, "How do we know the Catholic Church is right?" is in traditional Catholic discussion.

I am aware of this.  :(
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