References from Tradition and the Sacred Scripture on God permitting man to eat.

Started by Older Salt, November 15, 2013, 08:54:34 AM

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The Harlequin King

Quote from: LouisIX on November 15, 2013, 07:09:48 PM
How do you know man didn't (or wouldn't have) eaten meat before the fall?

What Pheo said. This seems like really basic Bible knowledge to me, but again, I grew up mostly Seventh-day Adventist.

nmoerbeek

Quote from: The Harlequin King on November 15, 2013, 08:56:11 PM
Quote from: LouisIX on November 15, 2013, 07:09:48 PM
How do you know man didn't (or wouldn't have) eaten meat before the fall?

What Pheo said. This seems like really basic Bible knowledge to me, but again, I grew up mostly Seventh-day Adventist.



Here is an intesting article you might find helpful that discusses Aquinas and Augustine on the matter.

http://blog.talkingphilosophy.com/?p=1602

"Third, Augustine presents a theological argument for eating meat. He begins by noting that animals need to eat plants and men need to use animals for food. This, of course, typically requires killing the plant or animal. This is justified because the bible says it is:  (Gn. 1:29,30): ?Behold I have given you every herb ? and all trees ? to be your meat, and to all beasts of the earth? and  (Gn. 9:3): ?Everything that moveth and liveth shall be meat to you.?

Be warned the article comes across as secular
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not to think so much of what I have written, as of my good and kind intentions. Please look for the truths of which I speak rather than for beauty of expression. Where I do not come up to your expectations, pardon me, and put my shortcomings down, please, to lack of time and stress of business." St. Bonaventure, From the Preface of Holiness of Life.

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Recovering NOer

Quote from: Older Salt on November 15, 2013, 09:04:30 AM
Are there scriptural references to Christ eating meat?

Luke Ch.24:
[41] But while they yet believed not, and wondered for joy, he said: Have you any thing to eat? [42] And they offered him a piece of a broiled fish, and a honeycomb. [43] And when he had eaten before them, taking the remains, he gave to them.


Also, wouldn't he have eaten the passover lamb at the very least?

It's amazing to me that vegetarianism even exists TBH (in THIS day and age... not talking pre-deluge), it's just insane.

Roland Deschain

Quote from: Recovering NOer on November 16, 2013, 03:07:06 AM
Quote from: Older Salt on November 15, 2013, 09:04:30 AM
Are there scriptural references to Christ eating meat?

Luke Ch.24:
[41] But while they yet believed not, and wondered for joy, he said: Have you any thing to eat? [42] And they offered him a piece of a broiled fish, and a honeycomb. [43] And when he had eaten before them, taking the remains, he gave to them.


Also, wouldn't he have eaten the passover lamb at the very least?

It's amazing to me that vegetarianism even exists TBH (in THIS day and age... not talking pre-deluge), it's just insane.

I wouldn't go so far as to call myself a "vegetarian" but I eat very little meat and am slowly working on eliminating it from my diet all together. I think it can be shown that a plant-based diet is healthier in the long run. I know at the end of every Lent how good I feel that I really don't want to go back to eating animal products.

As a matter of fact, this closely mirrors the monastic diet: no meat, very little dairy and a lot of fruit, vegetables and grains. It is proven that among monastics such ailments as cancer, heart disease, and diabetes is almost nonexistant.

I'm curious as to why you think this is insane?
'Since Moses was alone, by having been stripped as it were of the people's fear, he boldly approached the very darkness itself and entered the invisible things where he was no longer seen by those watching. After he entered the inner sanctuary of the divine mystical doctrine, there, while not being seen, he was in company with the Invisible. He teaches, I think, by the things he did that the one who is going to associate intimately with God must go beyond all that is visible and—lifting up his own mind, as to a mountaintop, to the invisible and incomprehensible—believe that the divine is there where the understanding does not reach.'

—St Gregory of Nyssa

Jayne

Eating meat is the norm and not eating meat is a penance.  Meat tastes good and is good for us.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.

Older Salt

I find myself almost automatically preferring fish at restaurants and almost always order it over meat.

I will now try to eliminate most meats from my diet as I do prefer fish.

I have better strength workouts and gain more lean muscle whilst eating fish and wegetables.

It is more of a penance for me to give up fish.

Meat is no problem.
Stay away from the near occasion of sin

Unless one is deeply attached to the Blessed Virgin Mary, now in time, it impossible to attain salvation.

Roland Deschain

Quote from: Jayne on November 16, 2013, 07:32:44 AM
Eating meat is the norm and not eating meat is a penance.  Meat tastes good and is good for us.

For you perhaps. I prefer not to eat it.
'Since Moses was alone, by having been stripped as it were of the people's fear, he boldly approached the very darkness itself and entered the invisible things where he was no longer seen by those watching. After he entered the inner sanctuary of the divine mystical doctrine, there, while not being seen, he was in company with the Invisible. He teaches, I think, by the things he did that the one who is going to associate intimately with God must go beyond all that is visible and—lifting up his own mind, as to a mountaintop, to the invisible and incomprehensible—believe that the divine is there where the understanding does not reach.'

—St Gregory of Nyssa

Older Salt

Which brings up another meat related question.

If one follows the law [older] of not eating meat on Church proscribed days, and one does not like meat as much as fish, is it still a penance, or should one give up fish instead?
Stay away from the near occasion of sin

Unless one is deeply attached to the Blessed Virgin Mary, now in time, it impossible to attain salvation.

Basilios

Set a watch, O Lord, before my mouth: and a door round about my lips. Incline not my heart to evil words.

Jayne

Quote from: Roland Deschain on November 16, 2013, 08:07:19 AM
Quote from: Jayne on November 16, 2013, 07:32:44 AM
Eating meat is the norm and not eating meat is a penance.  Meat tastes good and is good for us.

For you perhaps. I prefer not to eat it.

Not just for me, but in general.  The reason that monks don't eat it is because it is a penance.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.

Archer

Quote from: Roland Deschain on November 16, 2013, 08:07:19 AM
Quote from: Jayne on November 16, 2013, 07:32:44 AM
Eating meat is the norm and not eating meat is a penance.  Meat tastes good and is good for us.

For you perhaps. I prefer not to eat it.

Just a guess, but out of 7 billion people I would say you're in the minority. 
"All the good works in the world are not equal to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass because they are the works of men; but the Mass is the work of God. Martyrdom is nothing in comparison for it is but the sacrifice of man to God; but the Mass is the sacrifice of God for man." - St. John Vianney

Jayne

While I can not see any indication that man ate meat before the Fall, we are told that Abel sacrificed livestock.  This is a good sign that people ate meat at that time.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.

Basilios

This thread needs moar Monkey. D Luffy





Set a watch, O Lord, before my mouth: and a door round about my lips. Incline not my heart to evil words.

Jayne

Quote from: Basilios on November 16, 2013, 09:36:36 AM
This thread needs moar Monkey. D Luffy

I said "monks" not "Monkey".  Look what happens when you get them mixed up:
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.

Roland Deschain

Quote from: Archer on November 16, 2013, 09:18:19 AM
Quote from: Roland Deschain on November 16, 2013, 08:07:19 AM
Quote from: Jayne on November 16, 2013, 07:32:44 AM
Eating meat is the norm and not eating meat is a penance.  Meat tastes good and is good for us.

For you perhaps. I prefer not to eat it.

Just a guess, but out of 7 billion people I would say you're in the minority.

I'm also a traditional Roman Catholic, a conservative in a liberal area, and a New York Mets fan.....

I'm used to being in the minority  ;)
'Since Moses was alone, by having been stripped as it were of the people's fear, he boldly approached the very darkness itself and entered the invisible things where he was no longer seen by those watching. After he entered the inner sanctuary of the divine mystical doctrine, there, while not being seen, he was in company with the Invisible. He teaches, I think, by the things he did that the one who is going to associate intimately with God must go beyond all that is visible and—lifting up his own mind, as to a mountaintop, to the invisible and incomprehensible—believe that the divine is there where the understanding does not reach.'

—St Gregory of Nyssa