Author Topic: Austrian chancellor predicts end to ‘wrongly understood tolerance’ for .. Islam  (Read 1483 times)

Offline Innocent Smith

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I really don't care who they let in as I just don't have the time to read about the millions that have emigrated since Kadafi was overthrown by Hillary and Boy Obama.  But I do recall reading that many were healthy, young, single and male.  If not the majority.  I don't know how true this is as it could be just another hit piece like this latest from Life Site News. 

What I read in this article is basically nothing as the problem of "political Islam" is not close to being defined.  I was truly losing my patience reading this as the first half of the article just kept repeating that the Chancellor wants to deal with "Political Islam". 

Home grown terrorism that is mentioned having recently occurred really doesn't have a lot of connection to the headline or the entire gist of the article. 

Further, it seems to me that Life Site News is only too happy to applaud the suppression of religious activities.  I guess they may have come after the Catholics if the Catholics didn't suppress Mass all on their own due to the Covid Threat. 

Life Site News is run with the funds and views of the worst of the Neo Cons. 

Feels like spinning plates.  Because it is. 

By the way the nature of politics is compromise.  It can't be any other way.  Trump can complain all he wants about our funding of NATO and I too will agree before my better judgement sets in.  Our benefit from the Petro Dollar is enough to never complain about the funding of our troops in Germany.  Not to mention Germany's absorption of something like a million Muslims.  Eventually Trump will be out of office.  Talking in the time of that mass emigration.  And trust me when I let you know most of those million or so will end up right here in the good ole USA.

They're just being temporarily housed in Europe.  Maybe that's what the Austrian "Emperor" means. 

I know the family of Blessed Karl.  I had the good fortune to attend Mass with a large amount of the brothers, sisters, and cousins.  Including the current Karl who I believe is his the grandson of the Blessed.  I also had the opportunity to chat with them for a couple of hours. 

They're are intact and ready to assume the throne that is rightly theirs.  I don't hear this current "Emperor", the false one, talking about returning Austria to a Catholic Monarchy while he disses Islam. 

When that happens, and Life Site News writes that report they might be worth visiting and giving a hoot what they may have to say.

So careful where you drink from.  Seems to be much poison in this water.  As St. Benedict said, "drink the poison yourself", Life Site News. 
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Offline mikemac

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What are they ready to assume, the throne of the European Union?  From what I've read Blessed Karl himself had a fair amount to do with the start of the European Union.  The current Karl is known for being Pro-European and is also an advocate for the Pan-European movement.  He is being promoted as the next President of the European Commission.
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Offline Heinrich

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Offline awkwardcustomer

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For Mexico, pretty much dead after the Criseros.

At least they had the Cristeros. 

When have American Catholics had to take up arms to defend the Faith?

I'm getting pretty sick of American disdain for those who have had to fight to the death, very often, to withstand the damage that the American Freemasonic state has unleashed on the world.
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Offline Heinrich

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For Mexico, pretty much dead after the Criseros.

At least they had the Cristeros. 

When have American Catholics had to take up arms to defend the Faith?

I'm getting pretty sick of American disdain for those who have had to fight to the death, very often, to withstand the damage that the American Freemasonic state has unleashed on the world.

Who American here is disdaining a martyr? Hard pressed to find one. Am I understanding you correctly?


When have American Catholics had to take up arms to defend the Faith?

"In 1844 anti-Catholic riots instigated by Nativist agitators threatened to spread to New York from Philadelphia, where two churches had been burned and twelve people had died. Hughes put armed guards at Catholic churches and, after learning a Nativist rally was scheduled to take place in New York, famously told the Nativist sympathizing mayor that "if a single Catholic Church were burned in New York, the city would become a second Moscow" – a reference to the Fire of Moscow.[10] City leaders took him at his word, and the anti-Catholic faction was not allowed to conduct its rally."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hughes_(archbishop)
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Offline christulsa

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One more note on the Latino discussion.  Trad priests Fr Romanowski, FSSP, Fr. Michael Rodriguez of TX, and former Tulsa Trad priest Fr. Tim Davison have all ministered to the Mexican people, attesting to how much many are still keeping the Faith, inclined towards tradition, especially in more rural areas.  It’s not a coincidence there is a Remnant article about all three, if I’m not mistaken.  Viva Cristo Rey!  (PS I’m a Cristeros, just tell me where to sign up).
 
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Offline Innocent Smith

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What are they ready to assume, the throne of the European Union?  From what I've read Blessed Karl himself had a fair amount to do with the start of the European Union.  The current Karl is known for being Pro-European and is also an advocate for the Pan-European movement.  He is being promoted as the next President of the European Commission.

Fair enough comment.  Had I not seen them at a Midnight Mass one year and given Holy Communion first, and at a later time attend a weeknight Mass for Blessed Karl in which the current Karl said a few words and spent much time talking to a rather small crowd, I wouldn't have brought them up.

But let me rephrase it to ask where is the Catholicism in this statement by the current Austrian Chancellor?  Denying Muslims veils and attending a mosque is ridiculous and amounts to religious prosecution.  If Catholic women start to veil in Austria at some future time they may be outlawed before they start.  Basically, they won't even be thought of as it would feel to religiously extreme. 

I have been all over Europe.  It's been 10 years since my last trip.  I never saw any to be a problem and in some places little Muslim school boys in a McDonalds in Amsterdam looked like well behaved Catholic boys in their school uniforms. 

I do resent the racism.  And I do resent the tieing of hating Muslims with the Pro Life message. 

You can see where some liberals might get the idea, false idea I might add, that Pro Life people only care about the "fetus" and not the child once it enters the world. 

So tired of it all. 
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Offline awkwardcustomer

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Quote
For Mexico, pretty much dead after the Criseros.

At least they had the Cristeros. 

When have American Catholics had to take up arms to defend the Faith?

I'm getting pretty sick of American disdain for those who have had to fight to the death, very often, to withstand the damage that the American Freemasonic state has unleashed on the world.

Who American here is disdaining a martyr? Hard pressed to find one. Am I understanding you correctly?


When have American Catholics had to take up arms to defend the Faith?

"In 1844 anti-Catholic riots instigated by Nativist agitators threatened to spread to New York from Philadelphia, where two churches had been burned and twelve people had died. Hughes put armed guards at Catholic churches and, after learning a Nativist rally was scheduled to take place in New York, famously told the Nativist sympathizing mayor that "if a single Catholic Church were burned in New York, the city would become a second Moscow" – a reference to the Fire of Moscow.[10] City leaders took him at his word, and the anti-Catholic faction was not allowed to conduct its rally."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hughes_(archbishop)

The point I'm making isn't about the Cristeros in particular.  It's about an attitude in general towards other nations as demonstrated by a comment you made earlier in this thread, an attitude which is shared by a number other posters here.   

You said, "Europe has lost the Faith. They turned their backs to God and walked away. Now he is rewarding this faithlessness with virile headhunters."  So I'm asking you, when did America ever have the Catholic Faith?   

Right now, you're all so obsessed with Trump that you couldn't give a toss what's happening in the rest of the world, or what's happening to your fellow Catholics abroad.  Instead to continue to pour your scorn on us.

Well, you've never had to suffer even a fraction of what the Catholics of Ukraine, Poland, Spain, England, Ireland, everywhere, have had to suffer at the hands of the demonic forces which never stop attacking the Church. In Nigeria today, Catholics are routinely bombed and massacred in their churches.  Does that even register with you?

The example you give above represents nothing more than a minor skirmish.  American Catholics vote Democrat, do they not? 

You've never been tested.  I hear endless bluster about your guns and your smallholdings but time will tell how you hold up when they come for you.

Just as long as you don't imagine that you will be any more successful than anyone else has been.
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 
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Offline Innocent Smith

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For Mexico, pretty much dead after the Criseros.

At least they had the Cristeros. 

When have American Catholics had to take up arms to defend the Faith?

I'm getting pretty sick of American disdain for those who have had to fight to the death, very often, to withstand the damage that the American Freemasonic state has unleashed on the world.

Most don't have a clue.  Great post. 

I think American Catholics would be more likely to take up arms if Notre Dame was denied the National Championship on a technicality.  And I am not using that as an example of the current election fiasco.  Just in general.

My cousin went to Princeton, Harvard and MIT.  He's a big shot.  Back when the S&L fiasco occurred which almost took down the American Economy, they had to inflate our way out of it as is always done, I mentioned that the punishments needed to be a lot more severe.  Even physical.  He asked me, the barbarian in the discussion, if I thought they should be flogged.  I said, "yes, I think that would prevent future problems". 

This elitist doesn't even understand the actual nature of money as a debt instrument.  At least in terms of what it actually does to people not far below his lofty perch. 

Tucker Carlson brought up a similar point the other night.  Something I have been saying for 40 years in different ways.  I used to call them "Educated Idiots".  Carlson pointed out that they really aren't that bright.  Mostly due to a lack of practicality in their lives. 
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Offline james03

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I don’t know about that, J.  I saw a lot of devout pilgrims when I went to the OLOG Shrine in Mexico City, and more Christian behavior/culture than here.  Walking on their knees for miles to the Shrine. They are hardly anti-Western civilization (ie Christian civilization) as a people, compared to the other groups mentioned, despite the government.  Same in general for other Latinos, legal or illegal.  (Filipinos for example).   They’re ruled by Communists, and more culturally Catholic than going to Mass every Sunday,
We aren't talking about exceptions.  The Criseros can hold their heads up high in the feasting halls of heaven while I fill their water glasses.  I've known very devout Mexicans.  I have had married, black evangelical friends who homeschooled their kids.

Consider this: In France they have a grueling Trad pilgrimage every year and a strong Trad community second to only the US.  Would you call France Catholic?  Just because culturally Mexico is "Catholic" and people still go to pilgrimages, doesn't make it a Catholic country.  That ship has sailed.

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but I welcome the ones that come here legally, and show respect for American customs.
Obviously.  And I'd be more welcoming of the culturally Catholic illegal Mexicans over the moslem migrants Europe is infested with.  We'll be better off.  I've worked in Latin American cultures.  You can get by.  Just don't ask questions and do your job, and you'll at least get your rice and beans.
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Offline christulsa

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I don’t know about that, J.  I saw a lot of devout pilgrims when I went to the OLOG Shrine in Mexico City, and more Christian behavior/culture than here.  Walking on their knees for miles to the Shrine. They are hardly anti-Western civilization (ie Christian civilization) as a people, compared to the other groups mentioned, despite the government.  Same in general for other Latinos, legal or illegal.  (Filipinos for example).   They’re ruled by Communists, and more culturally Catholic than going to Mass every Sunday,
We aren't talking about exceptions.  The Criseros can hold their heads up high in the feasting halls of heaven while I fill their water glasses.  I've known very devout Mexicans.  I have had married, black evangelical friends who homeschooled their kids.

Consider this: In France they have a grueling Trad pilgrimage every year and a strong Trad community second to only the US.  Would you call France Catholic?  Just because culturally Mexico is "Catholic" and people still go to pilgrimages, doesn't make it a Catholic country.  That ship has sailed.

Quote
but I welcome the ones that come here legally, and show respect for American customs.
Obviously.  And I'd be more welcoming of the culturally Catholic illegal Mexicans over the moslem migrants Europe is infested with.  We'll be better off.  I've worked in Latin American cultures.  You can get by.  Just don't ask questions and do your job, and you'll at least get your rice and beans.

Well, rereading the thread, I don't see that we're talking about whether or not Mexico, or other Latin American countries, are still "Catholic countries."   Either officially or in the day-to-day actual practice of the Faith by most Latin Americans.

We were discussing the assertion:  "If you have been here lately, you'll see that our Western heritage is being pummelled by a coterie of third worlders: Somalis, Latin Americans, Bangladeshis, etc." and then your following claim that re "Western Catholic Heritage"..."For Mexico, pretty much dead after the Criseros." 

So, what conclusive evidence is there that "Latin Americans" are to be grouped with "Somalis, Bangladehis, etc." in "pummeling" "Western heritage"? 
Or your conclusion that "Western Catholic Heritage" is "dead" in Mexico?  Because so far I see no evidence to draw those conclusions.

There is a distinction between the anti-West policies of Latin American governments, and Latin American people, most who by our standards are poor, uneducated peasants.  For example, while there is a push towards homo marriage in Mexico, I think the average peasant finds it morally repugnant on a natural law level, in part because of their Catholic culture.   

The other distinction is between the Catholic religion and Catholic culture.  I saw this play out when I visited the Philippines (and Mexico), including a pilgrimage there.  Many are still religious, but the country as a whole has been reduced by and large to cultural Catholicism.  It is strange to me, but you will have a Filipino rice farmer stop at noon to pray the Angelus, but on Sunday he may stay home and drink rice liquor with his buddies while the wife and kids go to Mass, if they do.  BUT, just as in Latin America, there is still much Catholic culture, customs, etiquette, and basic moral behavior preserved there by the common people.  By no stretch of the imagination could you say they as a group are "dead" as a Catholic culture, and anti-Western civilization.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 10:08:48 PM by christulsa »
 

Offline james03

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Many are still religious, but the country as a whole has been reduced by and large to cultural Catholicism.

That is my point.

As far as Western European, I don't think Latin America was ever very European.  I think the Spanish separated themselves in castes.  Then you had the slaves and the Indians.  It might have been due to snobbery, or it might be due to the large IQ difference, don't know.

An American can do business in Europe, or feel comfortable at cultural events and restaurants over there, and vice versa.  It's not like that in Latin American cultures.  The only commonality is the Faith.  The cultures are very foreign as well as the politics.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"
 

Offline christulsa

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Fair enough.  But again, what conclusive evidence do you have for the conclusion that "Western Catholic Heritage" is "dead" in Mexico?
 

Offline FamilyRosary

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I want to follow up on a few things James and christulsa said in their last posts.

I'm an American who lived in Latin America for more than 25 years, in the 1980's and 90's and again from 2010 to 2015.

During the colonial period, the society was indeed segregated into "castes" with the Spanish-born at the top, followed by the locals of Spanish ancestry, then the indigenous peoples, followed by the slaves and at the bottom the mixed races, who had no legal status until the 1700's when the Bourbon monarchy took over from the Hapsburgs. To a certain degree, this system still exists, although altered by the fact that the countries are now independent and many received large scale European immigration in the 1800's and early to mid-1900's.

Catholicism was the only religion permitted in the Spanish colonies. After independence, freedom of religion was granted but the Catholic Church continued to receive favored status treatment. Catholicism was most heavily practiced by the well-to-do, the immigrants, the African origin communities, and the indigenous. The mixed-races had been locked out of the system for a couple of centuries, in many cases were unable to marry in the Church or baptize their children, and developed a syncretistic religion mixing pagan and superstitious elements with Catholic prayers and teachings.
The heavy influence of Enlightenment thinking and Freemasonry prevailed among the middle and professional classes, and today those are typically the people who have either become "Evangelicals" or simply irreligious.

The majority of Latin Americans are no longer peasants. Latin America is heavily urbanized, home to some of the world's largest cities, and in some countries a quarter or more of the population lives in the capital city. Just like everywhere else, urbanization has been accompanied by secularization and religious indifference. In some countries like Mexico, Colombia, Ecuador, and Peru, Catholicism is still the religion of the great majority (70% or more) and it's not unusual to see priests and nuns in the streets or for the social life to revolve around the local church. I lived in communities in the late 80's where the church bells rang three times a day for the Angelus.

The greatest problems Latin American Catholicism has had to face are the generalized ignorance of large sectors of the population which makes them susceptible to believing any novelty they hear on the radio or TV or from some anti-Catholic missionary, and the lack of vocations. The aggressively machista and strongly sexualized culture of those countries discourages in particular young men from entering the priesthood and all parts of Latin America have always had to rely on imported clergy to staff the churches. Up to the 1960's most of those priests came from Spain but there was also a push in the late 1950's and early 60's spearheaded in this country by Cardinal Cushing of Boston to supply American clergy. The Netherlands and Canada also contributed many priests as a response to John XXIII's call for wealthy countries to send 10% of their newly formed presbyters to Latin America.

Even before Vat II there was a dire shortage of clergy with many countries having only one priest per 3000 inhabitants. I lived for several years in a Central American department that until the 1940's had two priests covering an area the size of Rhode Island with 60,000 residents, and although later Jesuits from the American Western province were sent there, they were still not nearly enough to properly catechize and minister to the people.

What i observed is that in small and medium-sized towns where the inhabitants were mostly of either European, African or indigenous stock, the people stayed faithful to Catholicism and Catholic thinking pervades their imagination and actions. In large cities, it's mostly the older moneyed families who continue to adhere to the Church although since the early 2000's the Church there finally decided to react to the Evangelical phenomenon and began to sponsor adult education classes which have had a salutary effect. In the 80's and 90's few Catholics could defend their faith but now it's common to find middle class and professionals and even many in the poorer neighborhoods who understand and can explain to others basic Church teachings. I was a catechist at a small local church and attended a Bible class at a cathedral not far from my apartment, I served as godfather to three girls and sometimes attended their catechism classes as well and I sent my own daughter to a convent school and Catholic university and I can say that the quality of religious education has increased greatly in the past 30 some years.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 02:05:52 AM by FamilyRosary »
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Offline Pon de Replay

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Just a footnote in this discussion, but it may be relevant to consider the case of John Riley and the San Patricios, the 19th c. Irish Catholics who felt a closer cultural and spiritual kinship with Mexicans than they did with Americans, to the extent that they switched sides in the war.  "Irish-Iberian" indeed.
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Rome sank to whoredom and became a stew
The Caesars became beasts, and God—a Jew!
 
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