Author Topic: Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis  (Read 3235 times)

Offline Bonaventure

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Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis
« on: April 26, 2013, 01:19:36 AM »
To: Fr. Paul Schoonbroodt


2/28/2009

Dear Fr.
I received your letter upon my return from the U. S. I can see why a priest or a
layman can entertain doubts as to the validity of a Pope such as J.P. II or Benedict
XVI; did not Msgr. Lefebvre entertain them? However just as our venerable founder,
I myself do not wish to make this legitimate doubt the main reason for my combat or
as a justification for my actions. My combat is based totally on the duty to defend the
faith as per St. Paul. As for him who is seated on the See of Rome: Because there is
a doubt, the presumption is in favour of the possessor; and since the Sede-Vacante
arguments are not accepted by the vast majority of the traditionalist Catholics, it is
necessary to apply Can. # 209: “in dubio positivo….juridictionem supplet ecclesia pro
fors tum externo tum interno.” (in case of positive doubt… jurisdiction is supplied by
the Church in both the internal and external forums.); that is why the SSPX maintains
contact with Benedict XVI; of course, not to embrace his errors, but to convert him.
Please accept dear Fr. The assurance of my religious devotion in spite of all this in
Our Lord Jesus Christ.

+Bernard Tissier de Mallerais
 

Offline Roland Deschain

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Re: Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2013, 03:41:17 PM »
To: Fr. Paul Schoonbroodt


2/28/2009

Dear Fr.
I received your letter upon my return from the U. S. I can see why a priest or a
layman can entertain doubts as to the validity of a Pope such as J.P. II or Benedict
XVI; did not Msgr. Lefebvre entertain them? However just as our venerable founder,
I myself do not wish to make this legitimate doubt the main reason for my combat or
as a justification for my actions. My combat is based totally on the duty to defend the
faith as per St. Paul. As for him who is seated on the See of Rome: Because there is
a doubt, the presumption is in favour of the possessor; and since the Sede-Vacante
arguments are not accepted by the vast majority of the traditionalist Catholics, it is
necessary to apply Can. # 209: “in dubio positivo….juridictionem supplet ecclesia pro
fors tum externo tum interno.” (in case of positive doubt… jurisdiction is supplied by
the Church in both the internal and external forums.); that is why the SSPX maintains
contact with Benedict XVI; of course, not to embrace his errors, but to convert him.
Please accept dear Fr. The assurance of my religious devotion in spite of all this in
Our Lord Jesus Christ.

+Bernard Tissier de Mallerais

I'm curious as to what his Excellency believes the pope needs converting to. Is he talking about a traditional view of the Catholic Faith or the Catholic Faith itself?

This statement seems problematic on a couple fronts: either it is being implied that Catholicism comes in different flavors (traditional, neo-conservative, liberal etc) or that the pope needs converting to the Catholic Faith proper in which case, how can he be pope?
‘Since Moses was alone, by having been stripped as it were of the people’s fear, he boldly approached the very darkness itself and entered the invisible things where he was no longer seen by those watching. After he entered the inner sanctuary of the divine mystical doctrine, there, while not being seen, he was in company with the Invisible. He teaches, I think, by the things he did that the one who is going to associate intimately with God must go beyond all that is visible and—lifting up his own mind, as to a mountaintop, to the invisible and incomprehensible—believe that the divine is there where the understanding does not reach.’

—St Gregory of Nyssa
 

Offline LouisIX

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Re: Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2013, 02:53:44 AM »
The theological stance that the pope automatically loses the papacy if he is, for one reason or another, lacking (or erroneous) in the Faith is only one possibility mentioned by the saints and theologians.

See Garrigou-Lagrange's stance on the matter.
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
 

Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2013, 07:27:50 PM »
The theological stance that the pope automatically loses the papacy if he is, for one reason or another, lacking (or erroneous) in the Faith is only one possibility mentioned by the saints and theologians.

See Garrigou-Lagrange's stance on the matter.

What is Fr GL's stance?
Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

I am not altogether on anybody's side, because nobody is altogether on my side.  ~Treebeard, LOTR

Jesus son of David, have mercy on me.
 

Offline Bonaventure

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Re: Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2013, 08:06:16 PM »
The theological stance that the pope automatically loses the papacy if he is, for one reason or another, lacking (or erroneous) in the Faith is only one possibility mentioned by the saints and theologians.

See Garrigou-Lagrange's stance on the matter.

What is Fr GL's stance?

That he can be a heretic but still pope.
 

Offline tmw89

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Re: Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2013, 08:12:42 PM »
The theological stance that the pope automatically loses the papacy if he is, for one reason or another, lacking (or erroneous) in the Faith is only one possibility mentioned by the saints and theologians.

See Garrigou-Lagrange's stance on the matter.

What is Fr GL's stance?

That he can be a heretic but still pope.

Funny this should come up again - I just talked to a Suscipe member off-forum about this not too long ago.  I referred him to this post:  http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=1779.msg28379#msg28379
Quote from: Bishop Williamson
The "promise to respect" as Church law the New Code of Canon Law is to respect a number of supposed laws directly contrary to Church doctrine.

---

http://tradblogs.blogspot.com

NOW OPEN:  A new Trad forum featuring Catholic books, information, and discussion!
 

Offline Lady D

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Re: Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2013, 08:19:23 PM »
I wonder if Bishop Tissier de Mallerais assumes that no sedevacantists actually assist at SSPX chapels when he refers to the "vast majority of Traditionalist Catholics". Many do, usually out of the necessity of receiving valid sacraments, and in other cases, convenience (distance).
 

Offline Charlemagne

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Re: Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2013, 01:54:42 AM »
I wonder if Bishop Tissier de Mallerais assumes that no sedevacantists actually assist at SSPX chapels when he refers to the "vast majority of Traditionalist Catholics". Many do, usually out of the necessity of receiving valid sacraments, and in other cases, convenience (distance).

This sede does for both reasons listed - valid sacraments and distance. There are many more like me and my family.
O Lord, grant to me the grace that, when I meet my end, it may be as I leave the Confessional.

“They [heretics] want to be treated with oil, soap and caresses. But they should be beaten with fists. In a duel, you don’t count or measure the blows, you strike as you can.” -- Pope St. Pius X
 

Offline poche

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Re: Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2013, 02:54:36 AM »
The theological stance that the pope automatically loses the papacy if he is, for one reason or another, lacking (or erroneous) in the Faith is only one possibility mentioned by the saints and theologians.

See Garrigou-Lagrange's stance on the matter.
Who has the authority to decide when the pope is lacking faith?
 

Offline Bonaventure

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Re: Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2013, 04:06:00 AM »
The theological stance that the pope automatically loses the papacy if he is, for one reason or another, lacking (or erroneous) in the Faith is only one possibility mentioned by the saints and theologians.

See Garrigou-Lagrange's stance on the matter.
Who has the authority to decide when the pope is lacking faith?

Good question! I suggest you read up on St. Robert Bellarmine, especially as we celebrate his feast day.
 

Offline INPEFESS

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Re: Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 03:45:58 PM »
The theological stance that the pope automatically loses the papacy if he is, for one reason or another, lacking (or erroneous) in the Faith is only one possibility mentioned by the saints and theologians.

See Garrigou-Lagrange's stance on the matter.
Who has the authority to decide when the pope is lacking faith?

Anyone who knows the Faith has the competence to recognize that which is not of the Faith. Were that not the case, then we could never really know the Faith or recognize truth in the first place.  That recognition of what is or is not of the Faith impinges certain moral obligations upon the conscience, but not such that one must impinge it upon the consciences of others.
I  n
N omine
P atris,
E t
F ilii,
E t
S piritus
S ancti

>))))))º> "Wherefore, brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin at any time" (II Peter 1:10). <º((((((<

 

Offline Bonaventure

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Re: Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2013, 04:15:13 PM »
The theological stance that the pope automatically loses the papacy if he is, for one reason or another, lacking (or erroneous) in the Faith is only one possibility mentioned by the saints and theologians.

See Garrigou-Lagrange's stance on the matter.
Who has the authority to decide when the pope is lacking faith?

Anyone who knows the Faith has the competence to recognize that which is not of the Faith. Were that not the case, then we could never really know the Faith or recognize truth in the first place.  That recognition of what is or is not of the Faith impinges certain moral obligations upon the conscience, but not such that one must impinge it upon the consciences of others.

I suggest you see what the Holy Roman Emperor, Henry IV, said about this subject in the 11th century. The idea of a pope losing office due to heresy, and of heresy removing a man from Christian society, is nothing new.

The Crusades had not even been conceived of when serious Christians considered the "sede" question."
 

Offline INPEFESS

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Re: Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2013, 04:58:13 PM »
The theological stance that the pope automatically loses the papacy if he is, for one reason or another, lacking (or erroneous) in the Faith is only one possibility mentioned by the saints and theologians.

See Garrigou-Lagrange's stance on the matter.
Who has the authority to decide when the pope is lacking faith?

Anyone who knows the Faith has the competence to recognize that which is not of the Faith. Were that not the case, then we could never really know the Faith or recognize truth in the first place.  That recognition of what is or is not of the Faith impinges certain moral obligations upon the conscience, but not such that one must impinge it upon the consciences of others.

I suggest you see what the Holy Roman Emperor, Henry IV, said about this subject in the 11th century. The idea of a pope losing office due to heresy, and of heresy removing a man from Christian society, is nothing new.

The Crusades had not even been conceived of when serious Christians considered the "sede" question."

Certainly. Would you mind posting it for me?
I  n
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P atris,
E t
F ilii,
E t
S piritus
S ancti

>))))))º> "Wherefore, brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin at any time" (II Peter 1:10). <º((((((<

 

Offline Bonaventure

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Offline Mithrandylan

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Re: Bishop Tissier de Mallerais Letter on SV Thesis
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2013, 05:36:46 PM »
John Lane wrote a short article on Fra Savanarola and the Borgia, Alexander VI.  http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/savonarola.html

Alexander is known as possibly the most immoral pope, but some of his subjects suspected him a heretic and sought to depose him.
Ps 135

Quia in humilitáte nostra memor fuit nostri: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Et redémit nos ab inimícis nostris: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Qui dat escam omni carni: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Deo cæli: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Dómino dominórum: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.

For he was mindful of us in our affliction: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
And he redeemed us from our enemies: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Who giveth food to all flesh: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the God of heaven: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the Lord of lords: * for his mercy endureth for ever.

-I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-