Cardinal Burke on Pope-heretic

Started by Nazianzen, December 22, 2016, 10:29:38 PM

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Nazianzen

CWR: Is there a Scriptural basis for rebuking a pope?

Cardinal Burke: The classic Scriptural basis is St. Paul's rebuking of Peter [in Galatians 2:11ff] for his accommodation of the Judaizers in the early Christian Church. Saint Paul confronted Peter to his face because he would be requiring things of the Gentile Christians that are not inherent to the Christian faith. And Peter actually agreed with that, but when he was with the Judaizers he would feign the other position and so Paul corrected him, as he said, to his face.

...

CWR: Some critics say you are implicitly accusing the Pope of heresy.

Cardinal Burke: No, that's not what we have implied at all. We have simply asked him, as the Supreme Pastor of the Church, to clarify these five points that are confused; these five, very serious and fundamental points. We're not accusing him of heresy, but just asking him to answer these questions for us as the Supreme Pastor of the Church.

...

CWR: Some people are saying that the pope could separate himself from communion with the Church. Can the pope legitimately be declared in schism or heresy?

Cardinal Burke: If a Pope would formally profess heresy he would cease, by that act, to be the Pope. It's automatic. And so, that could happen.

CWR: That could happen.

Cardinal Burke: Yes.

CWR: That's a scary thought.

Cardinal Burke: It is a scary thought, and I hope we won't be witnessing that at any time soon.

...

[CWR:] Back to this question about the Pope committing heresy. What happens then, if the Pope commits heresy and is no longer Pope? Is there a new conclave? Who's in charge of the Church? Or do we just not even want to go there to start figuring that stuff out?

Cardinal Burke: There is already in place the discipline to be followed when the Pope ceases from his office, even as happened when Pope Benedict XVI abdicated his office. The Church continued to be governed in the interim between the effective date of his abdication and the inauguration of the papal ministry of Pope Francis.

CWR: Who is competent to declare him to be in heresy?

Cardinal Burke: It would have to be members of the College of Cardinals.

CWR: Just to clarify again, are you saying that Pope Francis is in heresy or is close to it?

Cardinal Burke: No, I am not saying that Pope Francis is in heresy. I have never said that. Neither have I stated that he is close to being in heresy.

("Cardinal Burke: 'No, I am not saying that Pope Francis is in heresy'", The Catholic World Report, Dec. 19, 2016 < http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/5292/cardinal_burke_no_i_am_not_saying_that_pope_francis_is_in_heresy.aspx >)

Miriam_M

Yes, that ^ was posted on another SD thread as well, but thank you for reposting it.
:)

Stubborn

Personally, I am watching this show with a tad bit of interest to see how one group of heretics does battle with the heretical pope. Other than that, I pray that I am wrong but I'm of the opinion that nothing good will come of this, only more evil.
Even after a long life of sin, if the Christian receives the Sacrament of the dying with the appropriate dispositions, he will go straight to heaven without having to go to purgatory. - Fr. M. Philipon; This sacrament prepares man for glory immediately, since it is given to those who are departing from this life. - St. Thomas Aquinas; It washes away the sins that remain to be atoned, and the vestiges of sin; it comforts and strengthens the soul of the sick person, arousing in him a great trust and confidence in the divine mercy. Thus strengthened, he bears the hardships and struggles of his illness more easily and resists the temptation of the devil and the heel of the deceiver more readily; and if it be advantageous to the welfare of his soul, he sometimes regains his bodily health. - Council of Trent

Nazianzen

I have an optimistic personality.  I'm hopeful that much good will come from this.  It clarifies the seriousness of the situation, and will be like somebody throwing all the cards in the air.  We don't know where they'll land.  If Francis is rejected by some cardinals, all of the heat will disappear from the anti-sede mentality, and there will be new possibilities for clear and unprejudiced views.

But there will also be new evils, I think you're right.

Counter Revolutionary

Quote from: Stubborn on December 23, 2016, 05:43:23 AM
Personally, I am watching this show with a tad bit of interest to see how one group of heretics does battle with the heretical pope. Other than that, I pray that I am wrong but I'm of the opinion that nothing good will come of this, only more evil.

If these Cardinals were truly cooperating with grace wouldn't they see that in the order of things to be done there are more important battles to be fought than the one over Amoris Laetitia?

If they were truly cooperating with grace then they would address the almost universal undermining of the dogma of exclusive salvation, the illicitness of the new rites, the mortal sin of immodesty which 90% of western female Catholics are guilty of, the absolute necessity of supporting politicians who would take away the rights of Jews to produce movies and television shows which promote gross immorality, etc.

Where has this sudden zeal come from? How can heretics think that they have the right to depose the pope? If they break off from the Church, will they still consider the Novus Ordo to be the "ordinary form of the Roman Rite" as the "conservative" Pope Benedict taught?

Only evil can come from this unless the Cardinals truly convert.
"Invincible ignorance is a punishment for sin." - St. Thomas Aquinas (De Infid. q. x., art. 1.)

Michael Wilson

The counter revolution has to start somewhere; sometimes it just takes a small pebble to start a landslide. I've been waiting for nearly fifty years for something like this to happen; lets wait and see where it all goes.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers

Stubborn

Quote from: Counter Revolutionary on December 23, 2016, 05:22:37 PM
Quote from: Stubborn on December 23, 2016, 05:43:23 AM
Personally, I am watching this show with a tad bit of interest to see how one group of heretics does battle with the heretical pope. Other than that, I pray that I am wrong but I'm of the opinion that nothing good will come of this, only more evil.

If these Cardinals were truly cooperating with grace wouldn't they see that in the order of things to be done there are more important battles to be fought than the one over Amoris Laetitia?

If they were truly cooperating with grace then they would address the almost universal undermining of the dogma of exclusive salvation, the illicitness of the new rites, the mortal sin of immodesty which 90% of western female Catholics are guilty of, the absolute necessity of supporting politicians who would take away the rights of Jews to produce movies and television shows which promote gross immorality, etc.

Where has this sudden zeal come from? How can heretics think that they have the right to depose the pope? If they break off from the Church, will they still consider the Novus Ordo to be the "ordinary form of the Roman Rite" as the "conservative" Pope Benedict taught?

Only evil can come from this unless the Cardinals truly convert.

Yes, well said.

The cardinals, who, along with the popes for +50 years, have presided over the revolution, over the multitude of fake annulments, abominable scandals, the desecration of the faith, Mass, schools, Churches, sacraments, the corruption of the youth and people and on and on and on ad infinitum, this whole crisis happened on their watch - now they say they are seeking clarification of this particular heresy because they have long since forgotten what heresy even is - but they think that perhaps, maybe this might be one.

With all that in mind, I cannot imagine anything good coming out of this. All the pope has to do is threaten to demote or excommunicate them and the spineless heretic cardinals will fold like a wet towel.

But if threats fail to shut them up and if the cardinals do come to their senses, I cannot imagine how it could be possible that they could stop at this particular heresy. As Michael alluded to, this small pebble will start a landslide. The potential is for a landslide that will certainly bring with it much bloodshed throughout the entire world, such as has never been seen in the history of creation.

We think the protests were violent among the idiot protesters pushing in favor of homo rights, trans bathrooms, Trump, BLM and etc.? We ain't seen nothin yet.
     
Even after a long life of sin, if the Christian receives the Sacrament of the dying with the appropriate dispositions, he will go straight to heaven without having to go to purgatory. - Fr. M. Philipon; This sacrament prepares man for glory immediately, since it is given to those who are departing from this life. - St. Thomas Aquinas; It washes away the sins that remain to be atoned, and the vestiges of sin; it comforts and strengthens the soul of the sick person, arousing in him a great trust and confidence in the divine mercy. Thus strengthened, he bears the hardships and struggles of his illness more easily and resists the temptation of the devil and the heel of the deceiver more readily; and if it be advantageous to the welfare of his soul, he sometimes regains his bodily health. - Council of Trent