Author Topic: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)  (Read 10005 times)

Offline Mithrandylan

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This article was posted on another forum.  After reading it, I was compelled to reply, but as my reply got longer and longer I decided that instead of posting it there I thought I'd come here and make it into a thread.  I will first post the article (with link) and then my comments to follow.  I hope they are helpful.  They are not just in response to this article, but in response to the election of Bergoglio and the common 'optimism' (whether true or false) exhibited by Catholics throughout the world (or at least throughout the internet).

http://www.taylormarshall.com/2013/03/traditionalists-and-pope-francis-can-we.html

Quote from: Dr. Taylor Marshall
Traditionalists need to take a deep breath!

Yes, I know. Cardinal Burke wasn't elected Pope. I'll be eating humble pie for the rest of Lent. I'm not worried about that.

Here's what I am deeply worried about:

Pope Francis hadn't been elected for more than two hours and the vitriol began to spew forth in the comment boxes of this blog and others. Many from the traditionalist crowd reacted against Pope Francis with words that were downright offensive. If one of my sons spoke like that about a priest (or any older man, for that matter), my boy would have a sore backside and a long stay in a dark room.
Within minutes of His Holiness' appearance on the loggia, some trads began an online campaign claiming that he was a persecutor of orthodox priests in Argentina. Then they said he forbade the Latin Mass in his diocese. Then they were mocking him for not wearing the scarlet papal mozzetta. They also expressed dismay over how His Holiness prayed in Italian and not in Latin. Next, they expressed their alarm that he took off his stole immediately after the blessing. Then they made much ado over how the tapestry unfurled over the balcony wasn't that of His Holiness' predecesor. And these comments aren't even the worst of it. I don't even want to list some of the other things they have written online.


Way to go, trads! We have been working so hard under the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI to demonstrate that we are not an inbred subculture of angry, hateful, quasi-schismatic, Jansenistic, holier-than-the-Pope Catholics. Everyone thinks that we who attend the 1962 liturgy are judgmental, Pharisaical, and rude (click here for details). And guess what. You just amplified that terrible reputation one hundredfold. It seems that their contrarian words were spoken in the heat of passion - and the stirred up passions are the devils' playground.

After reading comments on my blog and other blogs (especially Rorate Caeli), I am really embarrassed by it all. I felt obligated to clean up the comment's box on my blog, but fortunately others have done a good job silencing the angry voices.

Think about this for a moment. If you owned a business or were the president a large organization, how would you feel if your lower employees got together regularly to grumble about your leadership? What if they met together for the sole purpose of questioning your leadership and credibility? What if they gossiped and maligned you behind your back? What if they created chat rooms and spread it all around the internet. Would these persons be considered "faithful" to your institution? Would you like these people? Would you want to help these people? Of course not. Such actions are cowardly, immature, and small.

Perhaps one should pray 15 decades of the Rosary for the Holy Father before logging online and detracting the Vicar of Christ, whom St Catherine of Sienna called "our sweet Jesus on earth."

Yes, I am a member of a Latin Mass parish (Mater Dei Catholic Church in Irving, Texas). I am the Chancellor of the Catholic College in the USA with Extraordinary Form of the Holy Sacrifice Mass seven days a week (Fisher More College). It's part of our College's identity and mission. I attend the Extraordinary Form almost exclusively.

I'm "all in" when it comes the Latin Mass, but I am also "all in" when it comes to the Pope. I didn't leave the Anglican priesthood to pretend to be my own Pope once again only this time in the Catholic Church.

I am enthusiastic about Pope Francis? To be honest, I don't know very much about His Holiness. Yes, I'll admit it: I'm not as excited as I would have been if Cardinal Burke or Cardinal Ranjith had walked out on that balcony yesterday. Those who read this blog daily know that my heart and my reputation was set on Burke. Oh well. I'm not God. I was way off the mark. Still, the Holy Father Francis has my filial devotion and obedience.

Let's give His Holiness some time. Let's pray for him. If you're really worried, don't log on to a blog combox. Fast on bread and water, pray the Rosary more, go to confession more regularly, give alms to the poor, etc.

I'd like to encourage all of us to conform the pattern of our souls to the soul of the Blessed Virgin Mary. When Saint Peter, our first Pope, denied Christ three times, she didn't publish the news in the highways and the hedges. Saint John and Mary Magdalene didn't shout it from the housetops. It's really not our place to sift through what might be the future errors of a Pope that we don't yet know.

In conclusion, let me list three things that give me great hope in Pope Francis. First of all, I was touched by His Holiness' words about the Blessed Virgin Mary and his personal entrustment to her. Also, his first act as Pope was to go to St Mary Major in Rome and offer flowers before the painting of Our Lady titled Salus Populi Romani. This means that our Holy Father is Marian. Being Marian is much more important that the 1962 Missal. The Holy Apostles were Marian, even without the Latin Mass.

Secondly, Holy Father Francis, today at Saint Mary Major, knelt down and prayed before the tomb of Saint Pius V - that great reforming Pope of the 16th century. Third, His Holiness' first Mass today will be in the Novus Ordo in Latin. Okay, not 1962 Missal, but not a clown Mass either. Let's just take a deep breath. Be charitable. Pray.

Perhaps your salvation will be based partly on how you receive this Holy Father. Don't fail in this. Anyone can grumble and find faults. The true and proper response requires supernatural grace and a reassignment to the divine will of God in all things. God will deliver us ab omnibus malis praeteritis, praesentibus, et futuris intercedente beata et gloriosa semper Virgine Dei Genitrice Maria.

It's easy to grumble (like the Israelites in the wilderness post-Egypt). The supernatural challenge is to retain faith, hope, and charity in all things. Okay, friends, back to the beads! Keep calm. Retain Christ's perfect peace.

Viva Il Papa!

----------------------------------

My comments:


I think that Dr Marshall's article, while well articulated, misses the point entirely.  I also think that many neocons and neotrads are missing the same point.

Ultimately, it has to do with the crisis.  It's all about modernism, all about VII.  Traditional Catholics understand the crisis in the Church to proceed chiefly from the errors of the Second Vatican Council which taught modernism all that comes with it-- indifferentism, rationalism, liberalism, etc.  These were taught by the council and are 'dogmas' of the conciliarists.  And from these principles proceed the Novus Ordo Missae, an anthropocentric ceremony commemorating the Lord's Supper-- barely distinguishable from many protestant services, and capable of even being less reverent (this is not hyperbole, I've posted videos of protestant ceremonies that are ad orientem and far more reverent than many NO services). 

The new mass can only exist as long as the new theology exists, because it justifies it's very existence with the new theology, just as Luther and Cranmer justified their new liturgies with their new theology.  The law of prayer is governed by the law of belief. Lex orandi, lex credendi.  As long as the new theology permeates the conciliar structure, the new mass will-- and the new mass cannot co-exist with the true mass.  They commemorate different belief systems.

Dr Marshall and others who share his view do not believe the nature of the crisis to be as deep as this.  They may admit to errors in teaching, they may admit to irreverence in liturgy.  But they will not admit that these problems are any more than incidental or per accidens occurrences to a clergy that was seduced by the world.  They do not admit that the post conciliar clergy, from the top to the bottom, has enthroned modernism as the normative and appropriate method of theology for the Catholic faith.  Ultimately, the crisis is on the surface.  They may admit to it covering the whole surface, but it doesn't go deeper than that.  For these folks, a reverent NO is 'good enough.'  A pope who is Catholic on issues like abortion and gay marriage is 'good enough.'  The TLM may be 'superior' to the NO, but the NO is still 'alright.' 

But to a traditionalist, the NO is not alright (because it is not Traditional and it is not apostolic).  And simply assenting to the bare minimal moral standard is not alright.  When Ratzinger 'freed' the TLM, he was doing it in the spirit of modernism.  Modernism believes that theology must be in perpetual flux, always adapting to the needs of contemporary man, and that doctrine is formed by the collective conscience of man.  With the advent of the internet age and young people being sick of puppet masses and similar events, a 'demand' for the TLM became apparent, and like a good modernist, Ratzinger allowed it-- not because it was the mass of all time and the best we could give God (remember Cain and Abel-- a 'valid' sacrifice isn't necessarily pleasing to God) but because contemporary man demanded it.  One only need to take this one action (Summorum Pontificum) in context with his whole tenure to see that he was not interested in restoration, but with superficial unity.  We saw the rise of the Anglican Use, we saw Assisi III, we saw praise of non-Catholic leaders and Christians, (without any mention of their need to convert) we read letters and documents that underemphasize or completely disregard the urgency for a conversion to the Catholic faith.  And these are only the things which happened during his reign, nevermind those things which happened before it.  If we study the writings of Ratzinger prior to his election, his pontificate makes perfect sense.  He does not share the Faith of Our Fathers, he is intoxicated with the new theology, and his allowance of the TLM was only through the principle of modernism (providing to the 'needs of modern man').  His being the pope of 'Christian unity' had everything to do with indifferentism and a masonic idea of 'peace' and nothing to do with converting heretics, non-believers and lost souls to the Yoke of Jesus Christ, under (and only under) which they can find peace and salvation

Now we have Francis, who is another proponent of the new theology.  How else could he celebrate the Novus Ordo (conga style and with balloons) or join in the festival of Hanukkah?  A traditionalist priest or bishop does not involve himself with these things (in fact, he condemns them) because they are based in principles that are not Catholic.  People are concerned over what he'll do about the Latin mass, but I tell you that what he does or doesn't do to it is going to be entirely superficial (although less so if he 'bans' it) as long as the Novus Ordo remains, and the Novus Ordo remains as long as the new theology remains.  Even if Francis were 'friendly' to the TLM, it is not enough.  As long as the new theology remains, which allows for the Novus Ordo service and sins against the faith like praying with other religions and treating them as a means to salvation, the Church is in a grave (perhaps and likely it's most grave) crisis.  As Catholics, we have the promise of Christ that His Church will not fail, and we need not worry that it will.  But a person can be very, very close to death without dying.  The Church has a brain tumor, and a pope who 'allows' the TLM is like a doctor prescribing aspirin.  Is the patient to humbly submit to the care of the idiot doctor who treats impending doom as if it were a hangover?  Absolutely not, such a treatment is not good enough.  As Traditionalists, we shouldn't be afraid to say that this is not good enough.  If you had a brain tumor and the doctor gave you aspirin, would you humbly submit to his ruling?  Not if you knew you had a brain tumor.  And that is the difference, that is where we come full circle.  The neocons and the neotrads do not identify the crisis as what it is, and therefore they conclude differently than the traditionalists as to the treatment.  Traditionalists are treating cancer, neocons and neotrads are treating a hangover. 

So, it is not surprising to read this article from Dr Marshall (or to hear/see similar comments from others) because from their perspective, a cosmetic reform is all that is needed to treat a cosmetic crisis.



« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 06:43:27 PM by Mithrandylan »
Ps 135

Quia in humilitáte nostra memor fuit nostri: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Et redémit nos ab inimícis nostris: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Qui dat escam omni carni: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Deo cæli: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Dómino dominórum: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.

For he was mindful of us in our affliction: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
And he redeemed us from our enemies: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Who giveth food to all flesh: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the God of heaven: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the Lord of lords: * for his mercy endureth for ever.

-I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-
 

Offline Bonaventure

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Re: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2013, 06:34:07 PM »
The mean, Jansenistic trads reason is a cop out too. This place is the least Jansenist.
 

Offline Bonaventure

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Re: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2013, 06:36:54 PM »
It also depends with how one views the Church. The Church isn't Baskin Robbins, with being a trad merely an option amongst 31 flavors.
 

Offline Der Kaiser

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Re: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2013, 06:41:53 PM »
It also depends with how one views the Church. The Church isn't Baskin Robbins, with being a trad merely an option amongst 31 flavors.

It's NOT, but that seems to have been the goal of the last Pontificate.
"If a Pope changes the rites of the sacraments he puts himself outside the Church and is Anathema"-Pope Innocent III

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Offline Mithrandylan

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Re: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2013, 06:51:55 PM »
Oops, I meant to post this in the 'traditionalist news' subforum.  Perhaps someone with ultimate power can fix that.
Ps 135

Quia in humilitáte nostra memor fuit nostri: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Et redémit nos ab inimícis nostris: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Qui dat escam omni carni: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Deo cæli: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Dómino dominórum: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.

For he was mindful of us in our affliction: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
And he redeemed us from our enemies: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Who giveth food to all flesh: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the God of heaven: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the Lord of lords: * for his mercy endureth for ever.

-I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-
 

Offline Greg

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Re: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2013, 06:57:01 PM »
If these apologists ever came back to the "meanies" and said, "you were right", when JP2 held Assisi II, or similar, then I'd take their call for 'charity' as a serious and sincere.

But basically they are just ass-lickers and pope worshippers.

F could deny the First Commandment and they would put a positive spin on it.
 

Offline EcceQuamBonum

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Re: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2013, 07:48:48 PM »
I read Marshall's post.  And I read Fr. Z's infuriating "banana peal [sic]" post.  I even engaged in a bit of ill-conceived combox sparring in the Marshall post.  (I don't know why.  It's just infuriating and pointless.)  Fr. Z, of course, turned off comments in his post because he's soooooo overwhelmed by it all:

Quote
Since the announcement of a new Pope last night, I had to clean some really harsh things out of the combox and the comment queue.  I lost sleep doing so, and I don’t appreciate that at all.

Poor baby.  I hope someone gave him a cookie for all that hard work.

I just don't understand.  You can't even engage in dialogue with them.  They instinctively call anyone who disagrees with them a Protestant or compares him to a liberal, all the while being as pharasaical and judgmental as that evil, faceless army of trads out there that goes around stealing babies and kicking kittens and saying mean things about the Pope. 

Mith's post was spot-on, though, and very well done.  Too bad the modernist infection runs so deeply that none of the neocaths would ever be able to understand it.  They would read it and think you were just being a bastard to the Pope (who deserves our unquestioning obedience!).   

One neocath called me a "nasty traditionalist shill," though, which was pretty rewarding.   ;D
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Offline beagle

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Re: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2013, 10:10:22 PM »
I noticed that article earlier, the usual 'oh don't be one of those traditionalists' stuff. It used to be Novus Ordo Reform of the Reformers would attack us as 'radtrads,' now self-identified traditionalists do it. I think some of the rhetoric has been over the top, but much of it has been perfectly reasonable. Watch the 'Hanukkah 2012' video. It's not pretty. People have a right to be POed when our shepherds do stuff like that.

If Arbp. Lefebvre just shut up and quietly went along with the Pauline/Bugnini demolition, he very possibly wouldn't have that Mass he's going to. Maybe some aesthetes would have have a few as historical curios, but that's about it. The whole movement, before everything got nice and cushy, was a mini-war against terrible things coming from the Pope himself. And if they were right then, then why can't tough critics be right now?

Like I said before, I'm holding back for now, to see how things develop, but this kind of stuff drives me nuts. I'm tired of newcomers who have what are basically 'conservative' views coming in and preaching to us the new Mr. Nice Traditionalist synthesis. Marshall is probably a better guy than me, and he's probably more pious, but that don't make him right. He has a point to some degree, but...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 10:43:38 PM by beagle »
 

Offline Penelope

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Re: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2013, 12:54:01 AM »
Part of me wants to post a link to this thread to a Facebook argument I was engaged in earlier today, but I've already been called a negative, divisive, big-fat-meanie for explaining that trads have legitimate reasons to be concerned about the new pope and that expressing fears and concerns does not mean that we are automatically "against" the pope, as has been alleged. Ah, well. Better to shake the dust, I think.
 

Offline OCLittleFlower

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Re: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2013, 02:00:14 AM »
It also depends with how one views the Church. The Church isn't Baskin Robbins, with being a trad merely an option amongst 31 flavors.

+Infinity.
-- currently writing a Trad romance entitled Flirting with Sedevacantism --

Если вы можете прочитать это, вы лучше.
 

Offline JoyfulMother

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Re: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2013, 09:28:31 AM »
I understand both Mith's comments and Dr. Marshall's remarks.

I am understanding more and more how deep the crisis in the Church goes and it is not just on the surface.  Modernism runs deep in the Church and I think at this point, it is going to take heavenly intervention to fix
On the other hand - the vitriol - not just well made criticisms and concerns - toward our new Holy Father; within hours of his election; make trads look bad.  One person at the bog Ars Orandi called Pope Franics an Ass.  The post was very vitriolic.  I considered never again going to that blog, which would be too bad, b/c most of his stuff is very good and based on Geuranger.  This morning, he re-wrote the post on the advice of his spiritual director, leaving in place the criticisms but taking out the ugliness and insults.  The post as it stands now is how we need to approach things, not as it was done last night.  That post and some of the things I have read in comment boxes are the types of things Dr Marshall is refering to.  We do ourselves no favors with that type of vitriol.

Supertradmum said it best at her blog Etheldreda's place that we cannot overlook the truth because charity must be grounded in truth.   We should not be called hateful and criticized for bringing up our legitimate concerns - which I share BTW - but we cannot call names or disrespect the office.  If we do, we give people the perfect excuse to write us off, as many are doing now.  There are lots of people in comboxes saying they want nothing to do with the EF or trads anymore or at least temporarily.
 

Offline Dusty Bottoms

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Re: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2013, 10:06:00 AM »
I liked this take on it:

http://stlouiscatholic.blogspot.com/2013/03/24-hours-in-trad-self-flagellation-in.html

24 Hours in: Trad Self-Flagellation in Full Swing

It is a Catholic Internet Phenomenon. You see it as a Catholic blogger with a traditional viewpoint. It is the go-to pitch to ingratiate yourself with non-trads. It is omnipresent.

It is this:

When the facts get in the way of intra-Catholic harmony, blame angry "rad-trads".

For an especially effective pitch, be a self-described "trad" when you do it. Thus, you become "one of the good ones".

You see, "I'm not like them. They're bitter and crazy. If I admit that the Novus Ordo can be celebrated reverently, can my kids play on your parish soccer team?"

Well, something like that. Call it the Spirit against the Spirit of Vatican II Trad. Can't we all just get along?

Some Catholics were initially pleased with the selection of Pope Francis. Some Catholics were not. Most don't know what to expect from him. Not surprising.

So, a Catholic who wants to learn about him consults published information about His Holiness and reads what is out there in order to give some background. Not surprising.

Then, based on these things, one can begin to make tentative guesses or perhaps find areas of satisfaction or concern.

That's all great and normal, unless one is a Catholic attached to the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite. For such a Catholic as this, he must go further and drop certain historical facts, corroborated by multiple sources, down Orwell's Memory Hole.

Because if he doesn't he will be non-personed, terminated, stuck at the crazy table.

It wasn't even six years ago that most Catholics would have held a fellow Catholic in scorn and derision if he maintained that the Traditional Mass had never been abrogated and that no permission was required for any priest to say it. And yet along comes Pope Benedict XVI and says that yes, that crazy trad was actually right for the last 38 years and most were wrong.

But that was ok for most "conservative" Catholics because thisPope said it.

ThisPope.

That is what passes for the Magisterium for some: whatever thisPope says at this moment, at whatever level of formality and specificity he says it.

So, if thisPope didn't allow the Extraordinary Form to be celebrated in its un-adulterated form (and the overwhelming evidence is that he did not) in his Archdiocese after Summorum Pontificum was promulgated-- and some traditional Catholic blog points it out-- it is the blogger's fault and not the Ordinary's.

Take that trad and put him back at the crazy table. Because Summorum Pontificum was thatPope. Not thisPope. Unless thisPope says it's ok, that is.

I am rather late to the fight for Catholic Restoration. I know others who suffered the scorn and derision and uncertainty and injustice for decades. I got in at a relatively favorable time. So allow me to carry some water now.

You see, it isn't that pleasant to be put at the crazy table. Enduring smug remarks and condescension isn't that fun. So how can a crazy trad get back to the popular table? By calling other trads crazy, and becoming the "sane" one.

So it begins. I have read several self-described traditional Catholic bloggers ripping into other traditional Catholics who express anything other than glee at every aspect of His Holiness' past reign in Buenos Aires. That's it. I won't link to them because they live for the "hits" they get when they take up the cudgel. Some of them should know better, and some don't have a clue (you can always have my private opinion if you see me).

And a word about Rorate Caeli. I think it is the finest blog out there if you are a Catholic layman who seeks solid information, sober analysis, and a vision of a Church in love with Christ working for the salvation of souls. I link to it often. Condemning them for merely pointing to unpleasant facts is pretty weak.

We have one Holy Father, and one Catholic Faith. We should treat our fellows with some charity as we work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
 

Offline beagle

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Re: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2013, 10:21:28 AM »
To some degree, I agree with the talk about people being turned off by strong rhetoric or insults. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them people were conservative-leaning types who would get mad at almost anything critical we say- Assisi, the New Mass as semi-Protestant and intentionally watered down, opposition to beatification/canonization of JPII/PVI, etc. Some of it's been over the line, but how come you almost never hear anyone complaining they've been turned off to neocatism by them calling us names and mocking us? There's crap on every side, but all I ever hear is the 'mean trads' lectures.

I'm a little surprised that Rorate has come out so strong; they were getting wimpier there for a while.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 10:25:27 AM by beagle »
 

Offline SouthpawLink

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Re: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2013, 02:34:01 PM »
Mith,
You are officially my second favorite poster on the Web.  May God continue to bless you and keep you safe.
"Is there no exception to the rule forbidding the administration of the Sacraments to baptized non-Catholics who are in good faith? In the case of those who are in good health, the prohibition is absolute; no dispute on this point is possible in view of the repeated explicit declarations of the Holy Office" (Rev. S. Woywod, A Practical Commentary on the Code of Canon Law, vol. I, sec. 625, p. 322ff.).

Contrast the above with the 1983 CIC, Can. 844 §3 & 4: "Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church. . . .  If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church." — The phrase "properly disposed" does not save the canon from error, because the context shows that no conversion is expected on the part of non-Catholics ("manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments" is the sole requirement).
 

Offline PatrickG

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Re: Dr Taylor Marshall Rallying the Neo-trad Brigade (and my comments)
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2013, 02:43:02 PM »
QFT and I would add my favourite poster. This is masterful stuff and a masterful dissection of how a good many traditionalists appear to be swooning into the arms of Modernism. Cardinal Bergoglio was a Modernist and is a Modernist now. Cardinal Ratzinger was a Modernist and is a Modernist now.
 
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