Need advice, prayers

[Michael Wilson]

I.e. "Hitler and the Nazis were the problem"; The Catholic Church under Pius XI (Mit Brennender Sorge), condemned Nazism; they were "the problem"; but not the only problem; the same Pope condemned Communism and the Ecumenical movement. There are always many errors in the world, but only one truth: The Catholic Religion. Just because we abhor one error, does not mean that another opposite error is true or worthy of our support.

[christulsa]

As confused as Impy was morally, and as much as I didn't like him, he wasn't confused about what medical condition he had, which had been diagnosed by physicians and genetic testing, all taken as factual by the SSPX priests et al who counseled him.  I took his word for it, certain others instead crucified him at the time, including irrationally berating those who defended him without making the necessary bioethical distinctions between transgenderism and rare genetic disorders.   He has a rare genetic condition without a normal XY sex chromosome composition, where biologically his anatomy and physiology does not definitively define him as male.  My own background is health science/health care, science education, with a degree in Thomistic philosophy (including medical ethics), so I was hardly "confused" as suggested.

Btw, obviously none of this is to approve of "transgenderism" against the teachings of the Church. 

There are two things required when you are entrusted professionally with the care of "transgender" people, whether in education, health care, etc.  1) absolute refusal to condone their immorality (hence why H cannot refer to the new gender),  2) Understanding the psychological and/or medical condition in order to better support them professionally. 

[Jayne]

As confused as Impy was morally, and as much as I didn't like him, he wasn't confused about what medical condition he had, which had been diagnosed by physicians and genetic testing, all taken as factual by the SSPX priests et al who counseled him.  I took his word for it, others instead crucified him at the time, including irrationally berating those who defended him without making the necessary bioethical distinctions between transgenderism and rare genetic disorders.   He has a rare genetic condition without a normal XY sex chromosome composition, where biologically his anatomy and physiology does not definitively define him as male.  My own background is health science, science education, with a degree in Thomistic philosophy, so I was hardly confused.

Unless he changed his story after I was banned, the condition that he claimed to have was Eunuchoid habitus.  This is not a rare genetic disorder.  It is a body type.  While it is common for people with certain genetic conditions (such as Klinefelter syndrome) to have this, the body type does not necessarily mean there is anything abnormal about the genes.

Here is a post in which Vox claims that Impy (aka Clare) has Eunuchoid habitus:

It defines "transsexualism as a psychic disorder of those whose genetic makeup and physical characteristics are unambiguously of one sex but who feel that they belong to the opposite sex." (emphasis mine) There are, however, ambiguous cases, such as Eunuchoid habitus syndrome, which Clare suffers from, CAIS, Turner's Syndrome, Klinefelters, and so forth).

https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=63794&pid=1186589#pid1186589

Note that Vox is incorrectly claiming that Eunuchoid habitus is a condition of sexually ambiguous genetic makeup and physical characteristics. She was wrong. Tall men with long legs (the most notable physical characteristic) are not ambiguously male due to this.  And, while the genitals may be smaller, they are not ambiguous.  Also, as I said, this is body type, not a genetic condition.

Here is a post in which Impy describes himself as being XY:

While I chose Clare because it is simple and dignified, I chose Brid because I do have a devotion to St. Brigid of Kildare, particularly because of her service to the poor. Also, my father intended to give me that name had I been born XX rather than XY.

https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=69891&pid=1257461#pid1257461

[Greg]

Even in rural middle America the infectious Zeitgeist metastasizes. There is an afflicted girl undergoing "gender reassignment." From girl name to boy name. Principal's briefing indicated we are all on board and accepting. Um, no. Am I under moral imperative to address child by synthetic name?

The president of the teacher's union, American Federation of Teachers, is a Jew lesbian named Randi Weingarten.

That is Voris's hair.

[mikemac]

I must have missed that.  I didn't think Impy was a hermaphrodite.  Just weird.

Vox tried to muddy the waters by talking about Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (people with XY that look like girls), implying that Impy's case had a similar biological basis, but there was no reason to think this implication was true.  He did claim to have Eunuchoid habitus, but that just means a tall male with long limbs and possibly with smaller genitals.  It is a body type associated with various abnormal conditions, but not a form of hermaphroditism.  These are people with XY that appear male, i.e. men. There is no ambiguity about this. This body type may be caused by male hypogonadism, i.e. low levels of male sex hormones during development.

Low levels of androgens do not equate with sexual ambiguity.  It is very common for these levels to fall as men age and they do not stop being men.

Thanks Jayne.  Yeah I thought it was determined back at FE that Impy was not a hermaphrodite.  Just a perv.

[Jayne]

I managed to track down the post in which Impy described his condition:

I myself, in addition to having a characteristically feminine (but not effeminate) boyhood, experienced a testosterone deficiency during childhood.  My arm span is 5" longer than my height and my upper body segment to lower body segment ratio is .78.  (My legs are longer than my upper body.)  Medically, this is called a eunuchoid habitus.  In the absence of sufficient testosterone, the bones do not fuse and keep growing, resulting in the abnormal arm span, UBS to LBS ratio, and taller height.  So, not only did I likely not have enough androgen in the womb, but I had some other condition (which has not been diagnosed) which caused a deficiency in childhood.

https://www.fisheaters.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=63139&pid=1177541#pid1177541

He is not claiming that he has a rare genetic disorder.  He is saying his body structure was probably caused by low hormone levels.  He is speculating he has an undiagnosed condition underlying this.  He has unusually long legs.  This is not something that makes men look more like women.

[christulsa]

I can actually verify he did think his Eunuchoid habitus condition had a genetic basis, and was tested.  And that he had naturally large breasts and female-like genitalia, not to mention that his brain was probably from birth sexually disordered in terms of gender.  A phenotype that obviously female, naturally occurring, would indicate an abnormality in one's genetic identity, even though the exact abnormalities have not yet been identified for this condition.  When phenotypic expressions of that magnitude occur, since birth, there will be at least some genotype malfunction in governing the expression of gender traits at the hormonal level.  Therefore, yes, his disorder (a rare one at that) must have in part a genetic basis.  And having a biologically/numerically standard set of sex chromosomes (1 X, 1 Y) does not render them to be normally functioning since conception, because 1) an XY set can still have genetic abnormalities, 2) that XY set can intrinsically through genetic disorder interfere with other chromosomes that help express biological sex.

Therefore, in the case of "Clare Brigid" having Eunuchoid habitus, there was a basis for the National Catholics Bioethics Center (whose decisions have a pastoral nature as approved by the USCCB) and then SSPX priests to support his "transition" in this rare case.  Though, I personally question at times the theology of the NCBC (too much personalism, phenomenology, TOB, etc), because several tradtional priests, in particular that of the SSPX, gave general support for him identifying as female, I do not think his "transition" was immoral per se.

[Jayne]

I can actually verify he did think his Eunuchoid habitus condition had a genetic basis, and was tested. 

I posted what he actually said.  He did not not know what caused it and there are a number of things that might have done so. He had no diagnosis.  There is no basis for stating that he had a rare genetic condition as if it were a fact. There is no basis for claiming his brain was affected.  It was speculation or perhaps wishful thinking.

You claimed that he did not have XY chromosomes, but he did.  Rather than admit that you were wrong about this, you are doubling down on throwing around medical terms.  This is just how the original discussion on FE went.  Lots of obfuscation to give an impression that he had a physiological basis to think of himself as a woman.

And SSPX priests did not approve his transition or tell him to identify as a female.  They told him he could stop taking male hormones, since he was having a bad reaction to them. This is yet another misleading claim from you.

[coffeeandcigarette]

Create a new classroom policy, one meant to instill formality and discipline. Going forward, students should be addressed on a last name basis.

this is actually done at tons of private schools. Everyone goes by Mr. or Miss _____. I have even heard of some schools where the students get called just by last names, like "Where is your homework Smith?" This is the future if you want to keep your job.

[christulsa]

Jayne, we just have different memories/info, of what was said across various threads and fora on the subject, including in private correspondence, and a differing understanding of the actual science of the condition.  No need to personalize it, making accusations about being "obfuscating" or "misleading."   Up to this point, it's a fruitful discussion bearing on the OP. 

[christulsa]

Create a new classroom policy, one meant to instill formality and discipline. Going forward, students should be addressed on a last name basis.

this is actually done at tons of private schools. Everyone goes by Mr. or Miss _____. I have even heard of some schools where the students get called just by last names, like "Where is your homework Smith?" This is the future if you want to keep your job.

Besides calling this trans "boy" just by their last name, I don't see how you could call her "Mr."

[coffeeandcigarette]

Debatable.   There are very rare genetic conditions where a person does not have normal sex chromosomes or sex anatomy, such as hermaphrodites.   As depraved as "Clare" was before coming back to the Catholic Church, some were unable or unwilling to process the fact of his biological disorder.

Hermaphroditism is a result of original sin (as is all deformities, diseases, abnormalities, etc.). Hermaphrodites, in terms of being born into the physical predisposition, is beyond the control of the person but it can be corrected with surgery. This correction should obviously reflect the identity of the person's soul, which is an objective reality and unchangeable, hence the ontological truth of the person. The surgery should be performed after much prayer and nurturing from the parents as to understand what God has truly imprinted upon the child's soul.  In other words, to elucidate whether the person is male or female.

"Transgenderism" is a grotesque sin against God's natural order and Law. It's not the same as hermaphroditism.

The sort of prayer and discernment you are talking about would almost never be needed. It is incredibly rare to be born a hermaphrodite; but the chance of being born a "true hermaphrodite" and actually have male and female chromosomes is in infinitesimal. Most people who are called hermaphrodites simply have two sets of genitalia. A simple blood test will tell you what the child actually is and then you operate.

[coffeeandcigarette]

Create a new classroom policy, one meant to instill formality and discipline. Going forward, students should be addressed on a last name basis.

this is actually done at tons of private schools. Everyone goes by Mr. or Miss _____. I have even heard of some schools where the students get called just by last names, like "Where is your homework Smith?" This is the future if you want to keep your job.

Besides calling this trans "boy" just by their last name, I don't see how you could call her "Mr."

Yeah, I think he better just go with the surname.

[james03]

Soft martyrdom.  This will only get worse.  Just offer a pinch of incense to the demon, and you'll be fine.

If you want legal protection, then consult with a lawyer like Chris Ferrara's firm and set up an EEOC defense.  They have to make a reasonable accommodation.  So you can address the little girl by her last name.  That would be a reasonable accommodation.   

[Heinrich]

Soft martyrdom.  This will only get worse.  Just offer a pinch of incense to the demon, and you'll be fine.

If you want legal protection, then consult with a lawyer like Chris Ferrara's firm and set up an EEOC defense.  They have to make a reasonable accommodation.  So you can address the little girl by her last name.  That would be a reasonable accommodation.

These guys could come into the equation. We'll see.
https://www.thefire.org/