Joan of Arc or Maximilian Kolbe?

[lauermar]

I was thinking about the different approaches saints used in their time to endure evil for Christ's sake and preach the gospel.

On one hand, you have fighters like Joan of Arc who suited up and breached an enemy wall that her male colleagues were hesitant to do. She was martyred without winning the war although the liberation came years after her death. Other fighters are St. Boniface who felled the pagan Doan's oak to the shock of pagan worshippers. The Cristo Rey fighters. Jose Maria Escriva and his followers.

On the other hand are martyrs who didn't fight and passively accepted their lot. Kolbe fought Naziism with radio and press until his arrest and eventual torture. The Chinese martyrs and Roman Christians accepted torture without fighting. The nuns in the French Revolution accepted the guillotine.

I'd like to get some perspective from traditionalists on which approach you think is relevant today. We can't tear down false houses of worship anymore or fell oaks. The Capitol riot is now insurrection. A priest advised me to distance myself from all rebellion for any cause. Your thoughts?

[Tennessean]

Distance ourselves is the best answer. Northern cities have been bleeding for years, we should take the old neighborhoods back, support them with latifundium. Ride the tiger.

[Stubborn]

I think the priest gave you good advice.

Strive to keep and grow in the faith, it is only through our faith we accept that everything is in the hands of God, everything.

"Jesus said to them: Because of your unbelief. For, amen I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain, Remove from hence hither, and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible to you."

[MundaCorMeum]

I think we need both.  There are as many paths to heaven as there are saints in heaven.  Some of us will be called to fight on the front lines, while others will be called to suffer in silence.  Active and contemplative life has always worked side by side in Catholicism for the glory of God and building of the Kingdom.  They each provide a unique and necessary piece of the puzzle, and support one another in their complementary roles. 

Personally, I am a Maximilian Kolbe.  I feel like my role is to quietly live out my life as the best Catholic I can be, joyfully accepting whatever suffering Our Lord deigns to send, as that which is best for my salvation.  After all, St. Kolbe's feast day is on my birthday

[james03]

If you have to ask the question, then you are not called to lead the fight.

If you are asked to deny Christ, then you shout "Viva Christo Rey" and take the bullet.

[Daniel]

.

[Heinrich]

Thank you making this thread.

[christulsa]

Both.  We have to retreat more now because especially if you're a white (or non white)!conservative Christian (even worse if you add to those categories male, Catholic, traditionalist, Trumper, unambiguously heterosexual, unambiguously masculine or feminine in the traditional sense), you are now more than ever Public Enemy #1, and our Persecution is only going to accelerate considering the Powers-that-Be have almost all the power and rights, and now we have none.   

But fight when necessary per the teaching of the Saints.  It is a sin to not fight or prepare yourself to fight, when your life and those you care about are threatened.  Either a threat to physical life, property, your livelihood, your public reputation, your right to practice your Faith.  Any attack on what is fundamental to your state in life, or the state of life of people in your life.  For each person that is different, so each person has to discern when to fight or not.  The challenge is knowing what fights to engage in or not.

But we have to fight for/defend the rights of God and the Church.  When the time comes, when this Tyrannical government hunts you down, or starts persecuting the Church like the Communists are doing in China, then of course everyone of us here should be ready to fight and lay down our lives.   Right now we need to be largely bearing this worsened situation like the early Christians, but also prepping to fight if/when the time comes.  My new perspective post 2020 election is to step back and watch this thing collapse, while bearing witness and helping those around me, but be ready to fight and rebuild.  Though that might not even come in our lifetimes.

In my opinion. 

[Melkor]

Prudence dictates us to choose the most practical route for the time being, IMO there will be a time to fight and we should be prepared to do so, but clearly the time is not now. Also begs the question when to start fighting? I would have no hesitation to fight for my basic right to own property, but my parents and I disagree on this, them saying that until the actual right to worship the True God is denied, there is no need for force and violence. They are probably right but if you 'give up a little liberty in order to gain a little security, you deserve neither.' Ben Franklin. Just my view. 

[dellery]

I was thinking about the different approaches saints used in their time to endure evil for Christ's sake and preach the gospel.

On one hand, you have fighters like Joan of Arc who suited up and breached an enemy wall that her male colleagues were hesitant to do. She was martyred without winning the war although the liberation came years after her death. Other fighters are St. Boniface who felled the pagan Doan's oak to the shock of pagan worshippers. The Cristo Rey fighters. Jose Maria Escriva and his followers.

On the other hand are martyrs who didn't fight and passively accepted their lot. Kolbe fought Naziism with radio and press until his arrest and eventual torture. The Chinese martyrs and Roman Christians accepted torture without fighting. The nuns in the French Revolution accepted the guillotine.

I'd like to get some perspective from traditionalists on which approach you think is relevant today. We can't tear down false houses of worship anymore or fell oaks. The Capitol riot is now insurrection. A priest advised me to distance myself from all rebellion for any cause. Your thoughts?

The two approaches are equally valid. Each are valuable arrows to have in one's quiver. You don't use a screwdriver to drive a nail, nor a hammer to turn a screw.

In fact, the two approaches are complimentary in ways. Violence done to non-violent resistors compels others to pick up arms and fight in their defense, but more importantly, it makes a violent defense acceptable in the public's mind.

Protests, especially if widespread and numerous, will exceed the government's ability to manage a crisis by interfering with transportation and requiring more than available man-power to control population centers. This in turn frees up zones for combat units to engage in direct action.

The time to be fighting is now, in whatever way you can.
The Dems are creating a White racial identity, through persecutorial agitation, that will mobilize an overwhelming Communist United Front into a position of unassailable power.