Response I just recieved from Terry Carroll at CMTV.

[Miriam_M]

Pope = a man who happens to occupy and office.

Papacy = an office Divinely Instituted by Christ.

Attacking the office would be to attack the Church.  You can't criticize the office itself since it is what it is. 

You can criticize the holder of the office and in doing so defend the Church because the man himself can be failing in his duty to that office and be attacking the Church itself and attacking his own office. 

So, to defend the man in the office who attacks the Church and the papacy is to be complicit in the attack on the Church.

In other words you would be an accessory to the sin of the Pope who attacks the Church by silence or consent. 

So, the silence of CMTV and the attacks against defenders of the Church like the Remant and CFN is to attack the Church.

Bolding mine.

[Elizabeth]

Well, at least it was a glimpse into the dark psychology of Modernism.  We really appreciate you publishing this, Old Salt.

[Larry]

Hit them where it hurts, in their wallets. I know of one older guy who financially supports Voris; I sent him this via email, and now he's going to stop(he was friendly with Walter Matt, the founder of the Remnant).

[james03]

For those who have any hope for Voris, read this clearly:

Soldiers in battle on opposing sides may admire each other's dedication and skill in battle, they may be truly impressed with each other's fortitude and courage, but they are still fighting on opposing sides

Michael Matt goes to a Diocesan TLM.  He does not attend an SSPX chapel.

[james03]

The Remnant fails to accept that when you attack the Pope PUBLICLY, as they do in virtually every issue, they are attacking the Church.

Neo Catholics are wilfully blind.  When the Remnant publicly criticizes the Pope for promoting an heretical synod report praising sodomites, the Remnant is DEFENDING the Church against a wicked man.

[VeraeFidei]

  ....The SSPX are, if anything, "Halloween Catholics," i.e. they dress up and play Catholic probably better than most but, at the end of the day, unlike Halloween revelers dressed as Spider Man, they actually believe that they are the characters that they are playing.....



God bless you.


Terry Carroll "

Such ignorance....  But who is the Halloween Catholic.  The N.O ditched  the feast of ALL SAINTS as a Holy Day of Obligation.  So, really and truly, Halloween wins.

Lol the NO does not believe in vigils (which is what All Hallows' Eve is!), fasting, and penance.

[Prayerful]

For those who have any hope for Voris, read this clearly:

Soldiers in battle on opposing sides may admire each other's dedication and skill in battle, they may be truly impressed with each other's fortitude and courage, but they are still fighting on opposing sides

Michael Matt goes to a Diocesan TLM.  He does not attend an SSPX chapel.

CMTV must really be insecure to want to attack someone whose position is modest and moderate. Modernists will still despise CMTV. CMTV seems to belong to that strain of neo-traditionists which seeks to prove how much of good doggie they are. There's a Fr Nicholson who says diocesan Tridentine Masses, but lisps intemperate attacks on SSPX.

[Larry]

The Remnant fails to accept that when you attack the Pope PUBLICLY, as they do in virtually every issue, they are attacking the Church.

Neo Catholics are wilfully blind.  When the Remnant publicly criticizes the Pope for promoting an heretical synod report praising sodomites, the Remnant is DEFENDING the Church against a wicked man.

Exactly. The Remnant and other traditionalists are doing the work of the Church when they reveal the anti-Catholic nature of the man who now apparently sits on the Chair of Peter. Neo-Catholics and smells and bells "trads" have their heads in the sand, and many of them know it.

[Neopelagianus]

How blatantly offensive.

N.

[LaramieHirsch]

  

Wow. 

I guess that answers yesterday's question:

In fact, Michael Matt was trying to be conciliatory and polite to CMTV, in spite of the charges leveled against "pope critics" and others. 

I wonder, how will CMTV respond? 

This, right here, was CMTV's response to Michael Matt.  Michael Matt was being cordial, but CMTV spit on him anyway. 

Somehow this seems rather arrogant of CMTV. 

Yes, Their tone is cordial.  So what?

Geeze.  I hope Michael Matt is paying attention to this particular thread.

Soldiers in battle on opposing sides...

What the???   Are you crazy?  The SSPX has been at war with Modernism long before CMTV came along.  CMTV is a latecomer.

AND...if it were not for the SSPX, I would not be able to attend FSSP Mass or even diocesan Mass in my city.  SSPX demonstrated the remaining desire by laypeople to retain the Traditional Mass. 

I don't know that CMTV "bashes" the SSPX so much as subjects them to the same scrutiny that we subject all religious groups that are in error and not in union with the Church in Rome.

This could be objectively true. 

Consider what the SSPX and the "Sedes" have in common...

At last.  CMTV finally discusses the two groups independently, rather than lumping them together as one.  This should have been discussed publicly on one of their programs, not in some private letter that's being shared with our community.  CMTV leaves a lot of important topics in the fog for people to guess at.

It is a constitutive part of Roman Catholicism to be in communion with the Chair of Peter, the Vicar of Christ.  The SSPX recognize this in theory but violate this in practice.

This also seems to be objectively true.

Bah. 

People, y'all might wanna copy this letter, just in case it's taken down.  I highly doubt that CMTV will make themselves as publicly clear as this any time soon. 

Also, I'm sure Michael Matt will want to know he shouldn't be wasting his time with being nice to CMTV any longer. 


...you know, last year, it was TCat who forced me into a corner about sedevacantism.  It was then that I decided to have an opinion about it.  This whole mess between The Remnant, Traditional Catholics, and CMTV is going to force the issue among laypeople about how legitimate the SSPX is. 

Myself, I don't go, nor would I recommend anyone to it.  However, it is clear to me that the SSPX has had some good fruits.  Propagation of Latin Mass comes immediately to mind.  Clear thought about the Modernist Assault is another. 

I'd encourage folks here and elsewhere to cobble together a list of the good things the SSPX has done.  A tidy bulletpoint list. 

...on the other hand, don't the Medugorje fanatics do the same thing?  That is, list their good points?

---

A big dialogue about the SSPX among laymen is going to happen in the next year or two, I'm willing to bet.  I wonder what the venue will be.



 

[Frank]

...
A big dialogue about the SSPX among laymen is going to happen in the next year or two, I'm willing to bet.  I wonder what the venue will be.

I suppose the crunch point will come when the TLM is banned.

[Greg]

Banning it is not really their MO.  They are smarter than that.

All they need to do is swap out the priests in the churches where the TLM is popular.  Like Blackfen in Kent.  Move the TLM priest to Margate, where he has to begin again.

Bishop orders the priest to move.  Priest moves without much protest because the Bishop ordered him to.   Those who prefer the TLM are left high and dry.  They're not going to drive to Margate to mass, that is for sure.

The Bishops can even leave a few well established TLMs in major cities just to "demonstrate" that they are not trying to 'ban' it, but these decision are purely "pastroal" and the unfortunate side-effects are just, well, unfortunate.  Most people who prefer the old mass cannot access a major metropolis every Sunday so they have Hobson's choice.

In the end they will simply argue, that "the Novus Ordo is good enough for 99% of Catholics so why make such a huge fuss?".  "Mass has not been taken away, just one form of it".

[Kaesekopf]

I've heard that line too often, Greg.  "It's the same Mass, just a different form."

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[GloriaPatri]

  ....The SSPX are, if anything, "Halloween Catholics," i.e. they dress up and play Catholic probably better than most but, at the end of the day, unlike Halloween revelers dressed as Spider Man, they actually believe that they are the characters that they are playing.....



God bless you.


Terry Carroll "

Such ignorance....  But who is the Halloween Catholic.  The N.O ditched  the feast of ALL SAINTS as a Holy Day of Obligation.  So, really and truly, Halloween wins.

Lol the NO does not believe in vigils (which is what All Hallows' Eve is!), fasting, and penance.

Actually, All Saints Day is still a holy day of obligation. It's just that, in the US, when it falls on a Saturday or Monday the requirement to attend Mass is abrogated (presumably because of its vicinity to Sunday). 

[Older Salt]

Here is my original letter, addressed just to CMTV.

No one in particular:

"Dear Sirs,

Michael Matt today on Remnant TV was trying to defend The Remnant against the charge that it is wrong to make judgements about the pope or to cover the pope in the news. 

In fact, Michael Matt was trying to be conciliatory and polite to CMTV, in spite of the charges leveled against "pope critics" and others. 

I wonder, how will CMTV respond? 

Will Mr. Voris and CMTV  not acknowledge The Remnant's cordial tone?  Will Mr Voris and CMTV continue to trash those mysterious "splinter groups" that all seem to be lumped together.  (Really, there IS a difference between the SSPX and Sedes, Mr Voris.  You folks at CMTV do not need to bash the SSPX.  They acknowledge the pope and all that comes with him--the good and the bad.)  I really think that Mr Voris and CMTV (Including Fr. Nicholson) have been painting Traditionalist Catholics with a broad brush lately.

The Remnant is trying to be polite."