Author Topic: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX  (Read 20110 times)

Offline Bl. Karl Hapsburg

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Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« on: August 07, 2015, 02:09:20 PM »
Does anyone here know the size of the SSPX church in Madison?

http://www.madisoncatholicherald.org/bishopscolumns/5803-society-of-st-pius-x.html


A word of caution about the Society of Saint Pius X   
Bishop's Column
Written by Robert C. Molrino, Bishop of Madison    
Thursday, Aug. 06, 2015 -- 12:00 AM
The 50 years since the close of the Second Vatican Council have been tumultuous for the Church. Forces both inside and outside of the Church tried to distort and exploit the council and the post-conciliar liturgical reforms to create a new Church after their own image.

Too many of us endured years of sloppy or irreverent liturgy and mushy or even unorthodox preaching and catechesis. Too often when we voiced our concerns we were ignored.

Most of the faithful Catholics who saw this happening fought hard for a “reform of the reform.” Sadly, others decided that the only way forward was to work outside of -- and sometimes against -- the hierarchical Church and its structures.


This column is the bishop’s communication with the faithful of the Diocese of Madison. Any wider circulation reaches beyond the intention of the bishop.
This was the choice made by the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX), a worldwide society of priests best known for its strong opposition to the post-conciliar reform of the Mass. The Masses that they celebrate in their own chapels according to the 1962 Missal have attracted sizeable communities of the lay faithful, even here in the Diocese of Madison.

I want to be cautious and fair about the SSPX. Many of their concerns are legitimate. Many of their values and aspirations are admirable, and their zeal is impressive. Their priests wish to serve the Lord and His people. The people who attend their chapels are fervent.

We should always be cordial, respectful, and welcoming to them as brothers and sisters in Christ. Yet, their relationship with the Church is complex and developing. Moreover, the situation of SSPX bishops, of SSPX priests, of the faithful who formally align themselves with the SSPX, and of the faithful who occasionally or informally attend Mass with the SSPX, are all different in important ways. It would be inaccurate to call it a schismatic group in a strict sense, and we should all pray that it may someday be fully reconciled with the Church.

Having said that, all is not well with the SSPX, and my advice, my plea to the traditionally-minded faithful of the diocese is to have nothing to do with them. As Pope Benedict XVI made clear, the SSPX “does not possess a canonical status in the Church” and its ministers “do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church” (March 10, 2009, Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church).

The priests of the SSPX are validly ordained priests, but because for the most part they were ordained illicitly (i.e., by a bishop who had no jurisdiction over them and no permission to ordain), they are suspended ipso facto from the moment of their ordination (c. 1383); that is to say, even though they are ordained, they have no permission from the Church, which is necessary, to exercise priestly ministry.

Their Masses are valid but are illegitimately celebrated. The same is true, in most cases, with their baptisms, their conferral of the anointing of the sick, and provided it is administered by a bishop, their confirmations. Thus, Catholics should not frequent SSPX chapels or seek sacraments from the priests of the SSPX.

But there are two other, serious, sacramental problems that must be understood by everyone who may wish to attend SSPX chapels. If you take nothing else away from this letter, at least hear this -- the SSPX’s marriages and absolutions are invalid because their priests lack the necessary faculties.

The SSPX argues for the validity of their marriages and absolutions based on the canonical principle that the Church supplies the faculty in cases of doubt or common error. In certain rare and exceptional cases that might apply to their situation, especially with regard to confession, but for the most part their arguments are not persuasive.

Part of their argument hinges on the faithful erroneously believing that the SSPX priests have the requisite faculty; well, if you were in error about that up until now, you are not in error anymore.

The SSPX also makes the argument that they have permission because the Church is in a state of “emergency.” However, 1) the Legislator (the Pope) and the bishops with him don’t think there is a state of emergency, and 2) the sacraments offered by the SSPX are already widely available at legitimate parishes and chapels, i.e., no one is being denied the sacraments.

This is not the place for a discourse on the technical points of canon law, but the point is: do you want to take that kind of a risk with your marriage or even with your soul? Apart from legal and sacramental concerns, there is also the danger that affiliating with the SSPX can gradually cause one to absorb a schismatic mentality.

You might attend your first Mass at an SSPX chapel for good and noble reasons, e.g., such a strong initial desire for a reverently celebrated liturgy that you are willing to tolerate the SSPX’s irregular status. But as you attend more and more, it ceases to become something you tolerate and starts to become a mark of identity, even a badge of pride. You adopt a fixed posture of separation from the Church. That is a perilous position for any soul to be in.

The larger question is why put yourself in that position in the first place? The Traditional Latin Mass (also called the Tridentine Mass, the Usus Antiquior, or the Extraordinary Form of the Mass) is celebrated regularly in parishes throughout the Diocese of Madison, both on Sundays and on weekdays. These Masses are beautifully and reverently celebrated by vibrant, faithful priests. I myself celebrate it frequently.

As interest in the Traditional Latin Mass grows, these opportunities will increase. Already, there are very few people in the Diocese of Madison who could get to an SSPX chapel on Sunday without passing by a legitimate parish in which the Traditional Latin Mass is celebrated. If you’re knowingly doing that, it’s time to take a good hard look at your motives.

In closing, I want to stress that the need for a reform of the reform is real, and it is underway in our diocese. If you see that the Church needs fixing, work with your bishop, your pastors, and your fellow lay faithful to fix it. Share your needs and your concerns. Leaving is the last thing to do; leaving just doesn’t make sense! Communion with the Church is something to be cherished, safeguarded, and nourished.

Always looking at our Blessed Mother’s fidelity to Her Son, let us turn in prayer to Mary, Mother of the Church and Mother of our faith.

Click here for a list of Traditional Latin Masses celebrated in the Diocese of Madison.
If people don't believe in God, they won't believe in nothing; they'll believe in anything - Chesterton
 
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Re: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2015, 02:13:35 PM »
It can't be very large.

St. Therese Chapel
Wisconsin
6039 Baltes Road
Waunakee (Madison), WI 53597
608-831-7565
Sunday 9:00am

It is mostly likely "serviced" by a priest from the Winona seminary.  I think Milwaukee's (Mukwonago's) SSPX Mass is said by a Winona priest.
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Re: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2015, 02:15:41 PM »
With regards to the content of the letter...  I think Bp Morlino gave a rather fair handling of the SSPX.  I disagree with him on a few points (most especially the 'state of emergency' bit - if there were an emergency, it wouldn't be admitted by the top chiefs), but overall I thought he was very understanding towards the SSPX and also gave a fair approach to them (no heavy handed shouts of excomm' or schism).

He also has the 'trad' credibility behind him, regularly offering Pontifical Masses (near-monthly) and supporting/promoting the Mass in his diocese.
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Re: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2015, 02:50:55 PM »
All he has to do is give them faculties. The bishops perpetuate the Sspx being illicit claim, not the society.
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Offline Traditionallyruralmom

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Re: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2015, 04:33:16 PM »
200 people?  I could be wrong.  It is a growing little chapel.  The priests come from Winona.

How can their baptism be invalid?  Any Tom Dick or Harry can baptize?

This article makes me sad.  The SSPX priest there are good and holy.
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Offline Hiero of Syracuse

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Re: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2015, 04:36:36 PM »
I am fairly certain that the priest in question acknowledged the validity of the SSPX baptisms. Though why he said "in most cases", is rather confusing. I can't imagine the SSPX screwing up a baptism in the first place. 
 

Offline Traditionallyruralmom

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Re: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2015, 04:55:02 PM »
I am fairly certain that the priest in question acknowledged the validity of the SSPX baptisms.

I believe this letter was written by Bishop Morlino. 
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Offline Traditionallyruralmom

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Re: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2015, 04:57:38 PM »
It seems to me just more like what came from Bishop Zubik in Philly.  He is fine with all kind of nonsense in his Diocese, but the buck stops at the SSPX.
I have a friend who was in seminary in Madison.  He said it was your typical modern nightmare. 
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Offline Quaremerepulisti

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Re: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2015, 06:40:16 PM »
200 people?  I could be wrong.  It is a growing little chapel.  The priests come from Winona.

How can their baptism be invalid?  Any Tom Dick or Harry can baptize?

This article makes me sad.  The SSPX priest there are good and holy.

The article doesn't say the baptisms are invalid, only illicit.
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Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2015, 07:29:14 PM »
Hey, today in the Conciliar Church, everybody is saved, no matter what religion they practice or none at all; then there is "Eucharistic Hospitality" with our "separated brethren"; and a whole bunch more of etc. etc. Its a matter of "choking on a gnat after swallowing several large blue whales".
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Re: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2015, 07:40:21 PM »

As interest in the Traditional Latin Mass grows, these opportunities will increase. Already, there are very few people in the Diocese of Madison who could get to an SSPX chapel on Sunday without passing by a legitimate parish in which the Traditional Latin Mass is celebrated. If you’re knowingly doing that, it’s time to take a good hard look at your motives.

maybe it is because there is more to the life of a parish than one TLM every sunday.  the mass is the center of parish life, but your standard diocesan tlm is often lacking when compared to the sspx chapel because the diocesan tlm usually coexists with the NO.  and that means dealing with priests in the confessional with modernist mindsets...if you need advice or counseling, it might not be from the traditional persrpsective you desire.. some people want a daily TLM and maybe the sspx is their only option for that

if your child needs to be confirmed....it will most likely be NO.  if you want to celebrate good friday and easter in the traditional way, you can't.  if you are sick an din the hospital that parish sends extraordinary ministers and thinks that's good enough, and if you want a priest to do a sick call, you have to go through his secretary named Grendel

if you have children and they need catechism, you cant trust the CCD program because it is staffed by NO laypeople you cant trust.  our diocesan tlm parish is better than average, but considering the average parish in brooklyn diocese that really doesnt say a whole lot....  diocesan tlm's at least the ones here in my diocese have a long way to go before they meet the pastoral needs of traditional families.

most parishes are more concerned with meeting the pastoral needs of divorced and remarried people
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Re: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2015, 07:41:21 PM »
200 people?  I could be wrong.  It is a growing little chapel.  The priests come from Winona.

How can their baptism be invalid?  Any Tom Dick or Harry can baptize?

This article makes me sad.  The SSPX priest there are good and holy.

The article doesn't say the baptisms are invalid, only illicit.
I've never heard of an 'illicit' baptism!
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Re: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2015, 09:20:17 PM »
200 people?  I could be wrong.  It is a growing little chapel.  The priests come from Winona.

How can their baptism be invalid?  Any Tom Dick or Harry can baptize?

This article makes me sad.  The SSPX priest there are good and holy.

The article doesn't say the baptisms are invalid, only illicit.
I've never heard of an 'illicit' baptism!

I dare them.to say that Lutherans, Anglicans or the many other self professed Christians are illicitly baptised.
 
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Re: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2015, 09:23:38 PM »
200 people?  I could be wrong.  It is a growing little chapel.  The priests come from Winona.

How can their baptism be invalid?  Any Tom Dick or Harry can baptize?

This article makes me sad.  The SSPX priest there are good and holy.

The article doesn't say the baptisms are invalid, only illicit.
I've never heard of an 'illicit' baptism!

Receiving baptism from a suspended/excommunicated priest, excommunicated layman, or a non-Catholic, WHEN one is able to receive the baptism from a Catholic in good canonical standing, causes the sacrament to be illicit because it has been celebrated in contravention of Church law. As far as I am aware, the only sacraments that cannot be illicit are marriage (because the spouses themselves administer the sacrament, though I suppose if a cleric were to get married without laicization then the marriage might be illicit) and extreme unction (since there is the possibility of death an excommunicated/suspended priest, or even an Orthodox one, can administer the sacrament to you).
 

Offline christulsa

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Re: Madison bishop urges caution regarding the SSPX
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2015, 11:18:57 PM »
Interesting article.  This bishop does seem to be very tradition-minded.  I lived in the diocese of Madison for a spell, and he's a breath of fresh air, relatively speaking.

I never attended the SSPX chapel in Madison so I can't speak to it, but Wisconsin as a state seems to be an active place for traditionalists over the decades.  Now I didn't have the greatest personal experience there back in the day, but the trad movement there seems to be growing, perhaps in part to their bishop and the Tridentine Latin Mass Society of Madison. The Mad-city is known for its arch-liberalism, but I'm glad to see some changes in the diocese.

There might be some extra sensitivity towards the PX from Madison since the diocese is just a few hours to the east of the Winona seminary, but that vibe might change when the SSPX seminary moves east for the fall classes (?).


« Last Edit: August 07, 2015, 11:25:37 PM by christulsa »