Why can't trads get along?

Started by Jayne, July 31, 2014, 09:33:59 AM

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zork

#15
Quote from: Recovering NOer on July 31, 2014, 11:13:32 AM
I've quoted this old post of Bonaventure's before, but I really do think it sums up the answer to your question.  As to why THIS happens in the first place, I've been wondering that a lot myself.  I didn't see nearly as much of it even in the Novus Ordo, so why do trads who should "know better" constantly fall into this pattern?

Quote from: Bonaventure on December 31, 2012, 01:27:42 AMUnfortunately, too many Catholics try to attach their own baggage onto what being Catholic means. Political, social, and cultural norms are attached. For some, it's a Leave it to Beaver, 1950s life. For others, it's bunkering up with grain, gold, and silver. The examples go on and on. Through the internet, I've met some intelligent, faithful, and charitable Catholics from all over the world. At the same time, I've encountered real Jew haters, real women haters, real racists, absolutely obsessed conspiracy theorists, and so on. Anyone who disagrees is a liberal or "not a trad," and not one iota of these things have to deal with doctrine or spirituality.

Very much this. Trads have the only true form of the Faith, but aren't much better as individuals than the heretics are.

Christus vincit, Christus regnat, Christus imperat.

bben15

I think we need to ask ourselves, "Why can't all baptized persons get along, whether they are Protestant or Catholic?"

The thing is, some people just are not meant to get along. There are traditionalists out there that are in schism with Rome, and there are those that aren't. A traditionalist who attends a diocesan TLM can't possibly get along with a hard-core sedevacantist. 

zork

Not necessarily. You might be surprised.
Christus vincit, Christus regnat, Christus imperat.

Sbyvl36

Quote from: bben15 on July 31, 2014, 08:28:46 PM
I think we need to ask ourselves, "Why can't all baptized persons get along, whether they are Protestant or Catholic?"

The thing is, some people just are not meant to get along. There are traditionalists out there that are in schism with Rome, and there are those that aren't. A traditionalist who attends a diocesan TLM can't possibly get along with a hard-core sedevacantist.

Why not?  There is at least one user on here who does.
My blog: sbyvl.wordpress.com

"Hold firmly that our faith is identical with that of the ancients. Deny this, and you dissolve the unity of the Church."
--St. Thomas Aquinas

"Neither the true faith nor eternal salvation is to be found outside the Holy Catholic Church."
--Pope Pius IX

"That the Conciliar Church is a schismatic Church, because it breaks with the Catholic Church that has always been. It has its new dogmas, its new priesthood, its new institutions, its new worship, all already condemned by the Church in many a document, official and definitive."
--Archbishop Lefebvre

Heliocentricism is idiocy.

voxxpopulisuxx

Quote from: Jayne on July 31, 2014, 09:33:59 AM
I saw this question in another thread and want to give it a thread of its own.  It resonated with me because I have been thinking a lot lately about what I can do to be less argumentative. 

I do think there is more to tensions among trads than some people being argumentative, though.  That's just the piece I've been thinking on lately.
you could start by not derailing and trashing people who have attempted sincerely to be your friend.
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Chestertonian

Quote from: Sbyvl36 on July 31, 2014, 09:26:59 PM
Quote from: bben15 on July 31, 2014, 08:28:46 PM
I think we need to ask ourselves, "Why can't all baptized persons get along, whether they are Protestant or Catholic?"

The thing is, some people just are not meant to get along. There are traditionalists out there that are in schism with Rome, and there are those that aren't. A traditionalist who attends a diocesan TLM can't possibly get along with a hard-core sedevacantist.

Why not?  There is at least one user on here who does.

There are some nice folks who I think ate hardcore sedes who have been kind to me even though I believe Francis is the pope (unfortunately) and attend a diocesan TLM (in theory...in practice I haven't gone inside a church since Dec 2013
"I am not much of a Crusader, that is for sure, but at least I am not a Mohamedist!"

Recovering NOer

Quote from: bben15 on July 31, 2014, 08:28:46 PMThe thing is, some people just are not meant to get along. There are traditionalists out there that are in schism with Rome, and there are those that aren't. A traditionalist who attends a diocesan TLM can't possibly get along with a hard-core sedevacantist.

That doesn't explain it at all.  Most of the stuff people get into heated arguments about here is waaay more trivial than this.

Sbyvl36

Quote from: Recovering NOer on July 31, 2014, 09:47:32 PM
Quote from: bben15 on July 31, 2014, 08:28:46 PMThe thing is, some people just are not meant to get along. There are traditionalists out there that are in schism with Rome, and there are those that aren't. A traditionalist who attends a diocesan TLM can't possibly get along with a hard-core sedevacantist.

That doesn't explain it at all.  Most of the stuff people get into heated arguments about here is waaay more trivial than this.

Are you referring to the Oxford Comma discussion?
My blog: sbyvl.wordpress.com

"Hold firmly that our faith is identical with that of the ancients. Deny this, and you dissolve the unity of the Church."
--St. Thomas Aquinas

"Neither the true faith nor eternal salvation is to be found outside the Holy Catholic Church."
--Pope Pius IX

"That the Conciliar Church is a schismatic Church, because it breaks with the Catholic Church that has always been. It has its new dogmas, its new priesthood, its new institutions, its new worship, all already condemned by the Church in many a document, official and definitive."
--Archbishop Lefebvre

Heliocentricism is idiocy.

Recovering NOer

Quote from: Sbyvl36 on July 31, 2014, 09:51:04 PMAre you referring to the Oxford Comma discussion?

No, but that certainly doesn't hurt my case.

Sbyvl36

Quote from: Recovering NOer on July 31, 2014, 09:52:13 PM
Quote from: Sbyvl36 on July 31, 2014, 09:51:04 PMAre you referring to the Oxford Comma discussion?

No, but that certainly doesn't hurt my case.

By the way, where do you stand on the Oxford comma issue?
My blog: sbyvl.wordpress.com

"Hold firmly that our faith is identical with that of the ancients. Deny this, and you dissolve the unity of the Church."
--St. Thomas Aquinas

"Neither the true faith nor eternal salvation is to be found outside the Holy Catholic Church."
--Pope Pius IX

"That the Conciliar Church is a schismatic Church, because it breaks with the Catholic Church that has always been. It has its new dogmas, its new priesthood, its new institutions, its new worship, all already condemned by the Church in many a document, official and definitive."
--Archbishop Lefebvre

Heliocentricism is idiocy.

Recovering NOer

I use it.  LOL at it being an "issue."

bben15

Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on July 31, 2014, 09:38:01 PM
Quote from: Jayne on July 31, 2014, 09:33:59 AM
I saw this question in another thread and want to give it a thread of its own.  It resonated with me because I have been thinking a lot lately about what I can do to be less argumentative. 

I do think there is more to tensions among trads than some people being argumentative, though.  That's just the piece I've been thinking on lately.
you could start by not derailing and trashing people who have attempted sincerely to be your friend.

By "not being able to get along," I meant that we can't attend each other's churches, receive each other's sacraments, and be in harmony with each other in regards to traditionalism. I've never heard of a sedevacantist attending a diocesan TLM, not have I ever heard of a diocesan traditionalist attending a sedevacantist chapel. Sedevacantists do not go to Novus Ordo priests for Confession, and vice versa. Plus, the average traditionalist in my diocese does not support sedevacantism, nor even the SSPX. Obviously, we can't get along in matters of doctrine. However, that doesn't mean that we can't be friends. I don't know any sedevacantists, but I have plenty of Protestant friends and relatives, and we get along just fine.

Kaesekopf

Quote from: bben15 on July 31, 2014, 10:04:57 PM
Plus, the average traditionalist in my diocese does not support sedevacantism, nor even the SSPX.

Are they even trad, then?
Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

I am not altogether on anybody's side, because nobody is altogether on my side.  ~Treebeard, LOTR

Jesus son of David, have mercy on me.

SamVanHouten

They're liberal and probably come to a liturgy for its superficial, aesthetic "value". That's how Anglicans think, not trads.

Gardener

Quote from: Kaesekopf on July 31, 2014, 10:06:40 PM
Quote from: bben15 on July 31, 2014, 10:04:57 PM
Plus, the average traditionalist in my diocese does not support sedevacantism, nor even the SSPX.

Are they even trad, then?

One needn't not support sedevacantism to be a "trad", as that would be tending towards dogmatic sedevacantism

Sedevacantists often do not support the SSPX, so support of the SSPX is not necessary to traditionalism.

The FSSP supports neither the SSPX nor sedevacantism, and I doubt many would find it easy to accuse them of being liberal or not-trad without some interesting "logic" to back it up.

One could stand for the values, beliefs, etc., that the SSPX stands for as far as things in the Faith one must uphold, without supporting the SSPX. Reason? The tendency of many in the SSPX, meaning priests, and the laity which attend their chapels, to be outright unsupportable in their speech and behavior, often over things that have literally nothing to do with the Faith but somehow get wrapped up into exactly what Bonaventure said in that gold-nugget quote.

"If anyone does not wish to have Mary Immaculate for his Mother, he will not have Christ for his Brother." - St. Maximilian Kolbe