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The Church Courtyard => General Catholic Discussion => Topic started by: Ben on March 01, 2013, 07:02:24 PM

Title: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 01, 2013, 07:02:24 PM
I think I'll have to read up on the Byzantine Empire!

A New History of the Jews - Eustace Mullins - 1978

In all of recorded history, there was only one civilization which the Jews could not destroy. Because of this, they have given it
the silent treatment. Few American college graduates with a Ph. D. degree could tell you what the Byzantine Empire was. It was
the Empire of East Rome, set up by Roman leaders after the Jews had destroyed Rome. This empire functioned in Constantinople
for twelve hundred years, the longest duration of any empire in the history of the world. Throughout the history of
Byzantium, as it was known, by imperial edict, no Jew was allowed to hold any post in the Empire, nor was he allowed to educate
the young
. -The Byzantine Empire finally fell to the Turks after twelve centuries of prosperity, and the Jews have attempted
to wipe out all traces of its history.

Yet its edicts against the Jews were not cruel; in fact, the Jews lived unmolested and prosperously in the empire throughout
its history, but here alone the vicious cycle of host and parasite did not take place. It was a Christian civilization, and the
Jews were not able to exercise any influence. Nor did the Orthodox priests bewilder their congregations with any vicious lies
about Christ being a Jew. No wonder the Jews want to eradicate the memory of such a culture. It was Ezra Pound who launched
upon a study of Byzantine civilization, and who reminded the world of this happily non-Jewish land. From the Byzantines,
Pound derived his non-violent formula for controlling the Jews. "The answer to the Jewish problem is simple," he said. "Keep
them out of banking, out of education, out of government." And this is how simple it is. There is no need to kill the Jews.
In fact, every pogrom in history has played into their hands, and has in many instances been cleverly instigated by them. Get the
Jews out of banking and they cannot control the economic life of the community. Get the Jews out of education and they cannot
pervert the minds of the young to their subversive doctrines. Get the Jews out of government and they cannot betray the
nation.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Gottmitunsalex on March 01, 2013, 07:03:57 PM
Great read Ben.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ancilla Domini on March 01, 2013, 08:16:13 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 01, 2013, 07:02:24 PMFew American college graduates with a Ph. D. degree could tell you what the Byzantine Empire was.

Anyone with a high school education should know what the Byzantine Empire was.

QuoteNo wonder the Jews want to eradicate the memory of such a culture.

Quotethe Jews have attempted to wipe out all traces of its history.

If that was their goal, they did a piss poor job of it.

Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: tmw89 on March 01, 2013, 08:18:35 PM
Quote from: Ancilla Domini on March 01, 2013, 08:16:13 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 01, 2013, 07:02:24 PMFew American college graduates with a Ph. D. degree could tell you what the Byzantine Empire was.

Anyone with a high school education should know what the Byzantine Empire was.

QuoteNo wonder the Jews want to eradicate the memory of such a culture.

Quotethe Jews have attempted to wipe out all traces of its history.

If that was their goal, they did a piss poor job of it.

I was about to say... I always see a shelf or more on the topic in the history section of the local big-box bookstore.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 01, 2013, 08:31:00 PM
I was going to point out the same thing. It was published in the late 70's. Perhaps during Mullins lifetime up to writing the book it was a subject not much discussed. I'll have to read some literature on the Byzantine Empire and see how the subject of the Jews is handled.

I do agree, as all Catholics should, that the way to solve the Jewish problem is to make it illegal for them to hold important positions in certain sectors.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Someone1776 on March 01, 2013, 08:40:27 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 01, 2013, 07:02:24 PM
Nor did the Orthodox priests bewilder their congregations with any vicious lies about Christ being a Jew.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNydBMu1VfI[/yt]
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 01, 2013, 08:53:04 PM
I can't see the video. What is it?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Mono no aware on March 01, 2013, 11:30:51 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 01, 2013, 08:53:04 PM
I can't see the video. What is it?

A non-rebuttal claiming your post was "insanely idiotic" and devoid of rational thought.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Mono no aware on March 01, 2013, 11:41:18 PM
To be fair to Mr. Mullins (who once spoke to me cordially over the phone in the mid-1990s concerning the Lindbergh kidnapping, for which he believed Bruno Hauptmann was wrongfully convicted), I think the percentage of college graduates who could give a coherent summation of the Byzantine Empire would probably be pretty small.  Just a hunch.  But it's always amusing when people get quizzed about basic geography and history.  I was listening to a program on NPR last week, about a woman recounting her path to American citizenship and the standard U.S. history facts prospective citizens are expected to know.  She sprung a sampling of the questions on her native-born (college-educated) friends, and it was hilarious to listen to them flounder with the answers.  If they didn't know that Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, I'd be seriously impressed if they could tell us anything coherent about the Byzantine Empire.

Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ancilla Domini on March 01, 2013, 11:52:40 PM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 01, 2013, 11:41:18 PM
To be fair to Mr. Mullins (who once spoke to me cordially over the phone in the mid-1990s concerning the Lindbergh kidnapping, for which he believed Bruno Hauptmann was wrongfully convicted), I think the percentage of college graduates who could give a coherent summation of the Byzantine Empire would probably be pretty small.  Just a hunch.  But it's always amusing when people get quizzed about basic geography and history.  I was listening to a program on NPR last week, about a woman recounting her path to American citizenship and the standard U.S. history facts prospective citizens are expected to know.  She sprung a sampling of the questions on her native-born (college-educated) friends, and it was hilarious to listen to them flounder with the answers.  If they didn't know that Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, I'd be seriously impressed if they could tell us anything coherent about the Byzantine Empire.

No doubt. But the author's claim was that this information had been suppressed, not that students had simply failed to learn it.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Mono no aware on March 02, 2013, 12:11:37 AM
Quote from: Ancilla Domini on March 01, 2013, 11:52:40 PM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 01, 2013, 11:41:18 PM
To be fair to Mr. Mullins (who once spoke to me cordially over the phone in the mid-1990s concerning the Lindbergh kidnapping, for which he believed Bruno Hauptmann was wrongfully convicted), I think the percentage of college graduates who could give a coherent summation of the Byzantine Empire would probably be pretty small.  Just a hunch.  But it's always amusing when people get quizzed about basic geography and history.  I was listening to a program on NPR last week, about a woman recounting her path to American citizenship and the standard U.S. history facts prospective citizens are expected to know.  She sprung a sampling of the questions on her native-born (college-educated) friends, and it was hilarious to listen to them flounder with the answers.  If they didn't know that Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, I'd be seriously impressed if they could tell us anything coherent about the Byzantine Empire.

No doubt. But the author's claim was that this information had been suppressed, not that students had simply failed to learn it.

That was only partly my point.  The Declaration of Independence is probably better-taught to American students than is the history of the Byzantine Empire.  I think more college graduates could correctly identify T.J. as the author of the Declaration of Independence than could tell you a single fact about the Emperor Justinian.  I can't speak specifically to how much history the average non-history major learns in school.  It's a big world with a long history and there's only so much time for learning in four years.  Whether it's time constraints or something else, I don't know.  Mullins' theory is, at least, one explanation.


Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ancilla Domini on March 02, 2013, 12:24:55 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 12:11:37 AMThat was only partly my point.  The Declaration of Independence is probably better-taught to American students than is the history of the Byzantine Empire.  I think more college graduates could correctly identify T.J. as the author of the Declaration of Independence than could tell you a single fact about the Emperor Justinian.  I can't speak specifically to how much history the average non-history major learns in school.  It's a big world with a long history and there's only so much time for learning in four years.  Whether it's time constraints or something else, I don't know.  Mullins' theory is, at least, one explanation.

It's an explanation with no evidence to support it and a great deal to the contrary, since information on the history of the Byzantine Empire is readily available. If someone sought to suppress it, they failed miserably. 
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Kaesekopf on March 02, 2013, 12:33:37 AM
There's literally an entire page on Wikipedia on this exact topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Byzantine_Empire

Here's the list of references used by the Wiki authors:
QuoteBowman, Steven. The Jews of Byzantium 1204-1453. Tuscaloosa, Alabama: University of Alabama Press, 1985.
Brewer, Catherine. "The Status of the Jews in Roman Legislation: The Reign of Justinian 527-565 CE." European Judaism 38(2005): 127-39.
Chazan, Robert. "Christian and Jewish Perceptions of 1096: A Case Study of Trier." Jewish History 13(1999): 9-21.
Charnis, Peter. "The Jews in the Byzantine Empire under the First Palaeologi." Speculum, 22(1947): 75-77.
Fieldman, Louis. Jew and Gentile in the Ancient World: Attitudes and Interactions from Alexander to Justinian. Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1993.
Gray, Patrick, "Palestine and Justinian's Legislation on Non-Christian Religions" in Baruch Helpem and Deborah W. Hobson (ed), Law, Politics and Society in the Ancient Mediterranean World, Sheffield, England: Sheffield Academic Press, 1993.
Linder, Amnon. The Jews in Roman Imperial Legislation. Detroit, Michigan: Wayne State University Press, 1987.
Sharf, Andrew. Byzantine Jewry from Justinian to the Fourth Crusade. New York, New York: Shocken Books, Inc., 1971.
Starr, Joshua. The Jews in the Byzantine empire. Athens, Greece: 1939.
Treadgold, Warren. A History of the Byzantine State and Society. Stanford, California: Stanford University Press, 1997.
Weinberger, Leon. "A Note on Jewish Scholars and Scholarship in Byzantium." Journal of the American Oriental Society 91(1971): 142-4.

So much for that... 
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Mono no aware on March 02, 2013, 12:55:37 AM
Quote from: Ancilla Domini on March 02, 2013, 12:24:55 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 12:11:37 AMThat was only partly my point.  The Declaration of Independence is probably better-taught to American students than is the history of the Byzantine Empire.  I think more college graduates could correctly identify T.J. as the author of the Declaration of Independence than could tell you a single fact about the Emperor Justinian.  I can't speak specifically to how much history the average non-history major learns in school.  It's a big world with a long history and there's only so much time for learning in four years.  Whether it's time constraints or something else, I don't know.  Mullins' theory is, at least, one explanation.

It's an explanation with no evidence to support it and a great deal to the contrary, since information on the history of the Byzantine Empire is readily available. If someone sought to suppress it, they failed miserably.

He could not possibly have been arguing that point.  If the history of the Byzantine Empire had been successfully suppressed, as you seem to think he claimed, even Mullins himself wouldn't have been able to learn of it.  His assertion was merely this: that Jews, given influence in academic circles, will tend not to make much of the Byzantine Empire.  He didn't say that nobody knew about, just even the average Ph.D might have a certain ignorance of it when (in Mullins' view) perhaps he ought not to.

This assertion is really no different than the common complaint among conservatives, who moan that college curricula these days are formulated by liberal faculty members and tend to give short shrift to classical subjects (dismissing them as the provenance of "dead white guys") in favor of ridiculous modern ones like "gender studies" and "ethnic studies."

Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 02, 2013, 12:59:17 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 12:55:37 AM
Quote from: Ancilla Domini on March 02, 2013, 12:24:55 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 12:11:37 AMThat was only partly my point.  The Declaration of Independence is probably better-taught to American students than is the history of the Byzantine Empire.  I think more college graduates could correctly identify T.J. as the author of the Declaration of Independence than could tell you a single fact about the Emperor Justinian.  I can't speak specifically to how much history the average non-history major learns in school.  It's a big world with a long history and there's only so much time for learning in four years.  Whether it's time constraints or something else, I don't know.  Mullins' theory is, at least, one explanation.

It's an explanation with no evidence to support it and a great deal to the contrary, since information on the history of the Byzantine Empire is readily available. If someone sought to suppress it, they failed miserably.

He could not possibly have been arguing that point.  If the history of the Byzantine Empire had been successfully suppressed, as you seem to think he claimed, even Mullins himself wouldn't have been able to learn of it.  His assertion was merely this: that Jews, given influence in academic circles, will tend not to make much of the Byzantine Empire.  He didn't say that nobody knew about, just even the average Ph.D might have a certain ignorance of it when (in Mullins' view) perhaps he ought not to.

This assertion is really no different than the common complaint among conservatives, who moan that college curricula these days are formulated by liberal faculty members and tend to give short shrift to classical subjects (dismissing them as "dead white guys") in favor of ridiculous modern ones like "gender studies" and "ethnic studies."

Couldn't have said it better, Brocklehurst!

How did your conversation with Mullins come about? You were writing a book about Lindbergh?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 02, 2013, 01:01:37 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 01, 2013, 11:30:51 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 01, 2013, 08:53:04 PM
I can't see the video. What is it?

A non-rebuttal claiming your post was "insanely idiotic" and devoid of rational thought.

Someone is very unfriendly to me. He doesn't feel any warmth for me. No gooeyness is coming from him.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Mono no aware on March 02, 2013, 01:05:46 AM
Quote from: Ben on March 02, 2013, 12:59:17 AM
How did your conversation with Mullins come about? You were writing a book about Lindbergh?

No.  I chanced to be talking with a good friend of Mullins' who believed (as Mullins did) that the Lindbergh baby was never actually murdered and was living under an assumed name; I believe it was supposed to be somewhere in Vermont or Virginia if memory serves.  I held out against this claim with extreme skepticism.  Exasperated, my friend said that Mr. Mullins would be able to explain it all better than he could and proceeded to call him up.  In the end, Mullins turned out to be no more convincing than his disciple, but I remember that he was polite, clever, and well-spoken in the course of our brief chat.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Mono no aware on March 02, 2013, 01:07:29 AM
Quote from: Ben on March 02, 2013, 01:01:37 AM
Someone is very unfriendly to me. He doesn't feel any warmth for me. No gooeyness is coming from him.

I believe he fancies himself as a Juvenal or a Swift, ribbing the fury of "mad trads" with cutting satire and rapier wit.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 02, 2013, 01:14:50 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 01:05:46 AM
Quote from: Ben on March 02, 2013, 12:59:17 AM
How did your conversation with Mullins come about? You were writing a book about Lindbergh?

No.  I chanced to be talking with a good friend of Mullins' who believed (as Mullins did) that the Lindbergh baby was never actually murdered and was living under an assumed name; I believe it was supposed to be somewhere in Vermont or Virginia if memory serves.  I held out against this claim with extreme skepticism.  Exasperated, my friend said that Mr. Mullins would be able to explain it all better than he could and proceeded to call him up.  In the end, Mullins turned out to be no more convincing than his disciple, but I remember that he was polite, clever, and well-spoken in the course of our brief chat.

Were you excited to be talking to a celebrity? He knew Ezra Pound when he was in the mental hospital.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 02, 2013, 01:18:34 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 01:07:29 AM
Quote from: Ben on March 02, 2013, 01:01:37 AM
Someone is very unfriendly to me. He doesn't feel any warmth for me. No gooeyness is coming from him.

I believe he fancies himself as a Juvenal or a Swift, ribbing the fury of "mad trads" with cutting satire and rapier wit.

I think he should like me. After all I have "At my best, I love you!" under my avatar.

So that means that I'm basically a good guy. I hold myself to a high standard.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ancilla Domini on March 02, 2013, 01:37:19 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 12:55:37 AMHe could not possibly have been arguing that point.  If the history of the Byzantine Empire had been successfully suppressed, as you seem to think he claimed, even Mullins himself wouldn't have been able to learn of it.

He does not argue that they in fact suppressed it completely, only that they attempted to:

QuoteNo wonder the Jews want to eradicate the memory of such a culture.

Quotethe Jews have attempted to wipe out all traces of its history.

But he does suggest that they were largely successful, if, as he claims "Few American college graduates with a Ph. D. degree could tell you what the Byzantine Empire was."

Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 12:55:37 AMHis assertion was merely this: that Jews, given influence in academic circles, will tend not to make much of the Byzantine Empire.  He didn't say that nobody knew about, just even the average Ph.D might have a certain ignorance of it when (in Mullins' view) perhaps he ought not to.

I'd still like to see some evidence of that. 
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 02, 2013, 01:52:22 AM
Regardless, AD, it's a tiny part of the excerpt. Look at the excerpt with those claims excised and compare it to the full excerpt:

Full Excerpt:

QuoteA New History of the Jews - Eustace Mullins - 1978

In all of recorded history, there was only one civilization which the Jews could not destroy. Because of this, they have given it
the silent treatment. Few American college graduates with a Ph. D. degree could tell you what the Byzantine Empire was. It was
the Empire of East Rome, set up by Roman leaders after the Jews had destroyed Rome. This empire functioned in Constantinople
for twelve hundred years, the longest duration of any empire in the history of the world. Throughout the history of
Byzantium, as it was known, by imperial edict, no Jew was allowed to hold any post in the Empire, nor was he allowed to educate
the young. -The Byzantine Empire finally fell to the Turks after twelve centuries of prosperity, and the Jews have attempted
to wipe out all traces of its history.

Yet its edicts against the Jews were not cruel; in fact, the Jews lived unmolested and prosperously in the empire throughout
its history, but here alone the vicious cycle of host and parasite did not take place. It was a Christian civilization, and the
Jews were not able to exercise any influence. Nor did the Orthodox priests bewilder their congregations with any vicious lies
about Christ being a Jew. No wonder the Jews want to eradicate the memory of such a culture. It was Ezra Pound who launched
upon a study of Byzantine civilization, and who reminded the world of this happily non-Jewish land. From the Byzantines,
Pound derived his non-violent formula for controlling the Jews. "The answer to the Jewish problem is simple," he said. "Keep
them out of banking, out of education, out of government." And this is how simple it is. There is no need to kill the Jews.
In fact, every pogrom in history has played into their hands, and has in many instances been cleverly instigated by them. Get the
Jews out of banking and they cannot control the economic life of the community. Get the Jews out of education and they cannot
pervert the minds of the young to their subversive doctrines. Get the Jews out of government and they cannot betray the
nation.

Excised Version:

Quote
QuoteA New History of the Jews - Eustace Mullins - 1978

In all of recorded history, there was only one civilization which the Jews could not destroy. It was
the Empire of East Rome, set up by Roman leaders after the Jews had destroyed Rome. This empire functioned in Constantinople
for twelve hundred years, the longest duration of any empire in the history of the world. Throughout the history of
Byzantium, as it was known, by imperial edict, no Jew was allowed to hold any post in the Empire, nor was he allowed to educate
the young. -The Byzantine Empire finally fell to the Turks after twelve centuries of prosperity . . .

Yet its edicts against the Jews were not cruel; in fact, the Jews lived unmolested and prosperously in the empire throughout
its history, but here alone the vicious cycle of host and parasite did not take place. It was a Christian civilization, and the
Jews were not able to exercise any influence. Nor did the Orthodox priests bewilder their congregations with any vicious lies
about Christ being a Jew. . . .  It was Ezra Pound who launched upon a study of Byzantine civilization, and who reminded the
world of this happily non-Jewish land. From the Byzantines, Pound derived his non-violent formula for controlling the Jews.
"The answer to the Jewish problem is simple," he said. "Keep them out of banking, out of education, out of government."
And this is how simple it is. There is no need to kill the Jews. In fact, every pogrom in history has played into their hands,
and has in many instances been cleverly instigated by them. Get the Jews out of banking and they cannot control the
economic life of the community. Get the Jews out of education and they cannot pervert the minds of the young to their
subversive doctrines. Get the Jews out of government and they cannot betray thenation.

Almost the same size.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Someone1776 on March 02, 2013, 01:53:53 AM
Chew on this: the suppression of the Byzantine Empire was so successful that the term "Byzantine Empire" didn't enter the English language until 1857 :O
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 02, 2013, 01:55:14 AM
Still no gooeyness.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ancilla Domini on March 02, 2013, 02:09:11 AM
Quote from: Ben on March 02, 2013, 01:52:22 AM
Regardless, AD, it's a tiny part of the excerpt. Look at the excerpt with those claims excised and compare it to the full excerpt:

Full Excerpt:

QuoteA New History of the Jews - Eustace Mullins - 1978

In all of recorded history, there was only one civilization which the Jews could not destroy. Because of this, they have given it
the silent treatment. Few American college graduates with a Ph. D. degree could tell you what the Byzantine Empire was. It was
the Empire of East Rome, set up by Roman leaders after the Jews had destroyed Rome. This empire functioned in Constantinople
for twelve hundred years, the longest duration of any empire in the history of the world. Throughout the history of
Byzantium, as it was known, by imperial edict, no Jew was allowed to hold any post in the Empire, nor was he allowed to educate
the young. -The Byzantine Empire finally fell to the Turks after twelve centuries of prosperity, and the Jews have attempted
to wipe out all traces of its history.

Yet its edicts against the Jews were not cruel; in fact, the Jews lived unmolested and prosperously in the empire throughout
its history, but here alone the vicious cycle of host and parasite did not take place. It was a Christian civilization, and the
Jews were not able to exercise any influence. Nor did the Orthodox priests bewilder their congregations with any vicious lies
about Christ being a Jew. No wonder the Jews want to eradicate the memory of such a culture. It was Ezra Pound who launched
upon a study of Byzantine civilization, and who reminded the world of this happily non-Jewish land. From the Byzantines,
Pound derived his non-violent formula for controlling the Jews. "The answer to the Jewish problem is simple," he said. "Keep
them out of banking, out of education, out of government." And this is how simple it is. There is no need to kill the Jews.
In fact, every pogrom in history has played into their hands, and has in many instances been cleverly instigated by them. Get the
Jews out of banking and they cannot control the economic life of the community. Get the Jews out of education and they cannot
pervert the minds of the young to their subversive doctrines. Get the Jews out of government and they cannot betray the
nation.

Excised Version:

Quote
QuoteA New History of the Jews - Eustace Mullins - 1978

In all of recorded history, there was only one civilization which the Jews could not destroy. It was
the Empire of East Rome, set up by Roman leaders after the Jews had destroyed Rome. This empire functioned in Constantinople
for twelve hundred years, the longest duration of any empire in the history of the world. Throughout the history of
Byzantium, as it was known, by imperial edict, no Jew was allowed to hold any post in the Empire, nor was he allowed to educate
the young. -The Byzantine Empire finally fell to the Turks after twelve centuries of prosperity . . .

Yet its edicts against the Jews were not cruel; in fact, the Jews lived unmolested and prosperously in the empire throughout
its history, but here alone the vicious cycle of host and parasite did not take place. It was a Christian civilization, and the
Jews were not able to exercise any influence. Nor did the Orthodox priests bewilder their congregations with any vicious lies
about Christ being a Jew. . . .  It was Ezra Pound who launched upon a study of Byzantine civilization, and who reminded the
world of this happily non-Jewish land. From the Byzantines, Pound derived his non-violent formula for controlling the Jews.
"The answer to the Jewish problem is simple," he said. "Keep them out of banking, out of education, out of government."
And this is how simple it is. There is no need to kill the Jews. In fact, every pogrom in history has played into their hands,
and has in many instances been cleverly instigated by them. Get the Jews out of banking and they cannot control the
economic life of the community. Get the Jews out of education and they cannot pervert the minds of the young to their
subversive doctrines. Get the Jews out of government and they cannot betray thenation.

Almost the same size.

Well, Ben, size is all that matters!
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 02, 2013, 02:09:52 AM
 :rofl:
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Mono no aware on March 02, 2013, 09:18:05 AM
Quote from: Ben on March 02, 2013, 01:14:50 AM
Were you excited to be talking to a celebrity? He knew Ezra Pound when he was in the mental hospital.

At the time, I didn't know Mullins was a celebrity in certain circles, nor that he had been Pound's friend and biographer.  I just thought he was a conspiracy theorist of some sort.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Mono no aware on March 02, 2013, 09:27:28 AM
Quote from: Ancilla Domini on March 02, 2013, 01:37:19 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 12:55:37 AMHis assertion was merely this: that Jews, given influence in academic circles, will tend not to make much of the Byzantine Empire.  He didn't say that nobody knew about, just even the average Ph.D might have a certain ignorance of it when (in Mullins' view) perhaps he ought not to.

I'd still like to see some evidence of that. 

Then you, like the girl on NPR, should quiz of a sampling of Ph.Ds.  You could "vlog" your adventures on YouTube.  "Okay, Eustace Mullins fans.  Let's see if your boy was right on this Byzantine Empire stuff.  I'm here on the streets of Manhattan today and my mission is to find ten Ph.Ds and ask them how much they know about the Byzantine Empire."  You could include the footage of people who don't even know what a Ph.D is; those would be amusing.

"Are you a Ph.D?"

"A what now?"

Anyway, I doubt Mr. Mullins expected anyone to take his small bit of rhetorical excess to a literal extreme, or maybe he would've fashioned better evidence than something so anecdotal.  But at least you concede he wasn't claiming that the existence of the Byzantine Empire had been suppressed.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Mono no aware on March 02, 2013, 09:30:01 AM
Quote from: Ben on March 02, 2013, 01:55:14 AM
Still no gooeyness.

No, but at least he is no longer challenging the bit about Christ not being a Jew.  He considers that so stupid as to be beneath a proper retort.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ancilla Domini on March 02, 2013, 10:26:21 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 09:27:28 AMThen you, like the girl on NPR, should quiz of a sampling of Ph.Ds.  You could "vlog" your adventures on YouTube.  "Okay, Eustace Mullins fans.  Let's see if your boy was right on this Byzantine Empire stuff.  I'm here on the streets of Manhattan today and my mission is to find ten Ph.Ds and ask them how much they know about the Byzantine Empire."

The onus is on Mr. Mullins to prove his claims. But the fact is that I find myself every day in the company of PhD's, and non-PhD's, who have more than a passing familiarity with the Byzantine Empire. Sorry...     

QuoteAnyway, I doubt Mr. Mullins expected anyone to take his small bit of rhetorical excess to a literal extreme, or maybe he would've fashioned better evidence than something so anecdotal.  But at least you concede he wasn't claiming that the existence of the Byzantine Empire had been suppressed.

You're a very generous reader, Mr. Brocklehurst. Mr. Mullins is a lucky man.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: trentcath on March 02, 2013, 11:04:50 AM
Anyone got any book suggestions to learn more about the Byzantine empire?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ancilla Domini on March 02, 2013, 11:44:03 AM
Quote from: Ancilla Domini on March 02, 2013, 10:26:21 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 09:27:28 AMThen you, like the girl on NPR, should quiz of a sampling of Ph.Ds.  You could "vlog" your adventures on YouTube.  "Okay, Eustace Mullins fans.  Let's see if your boy was right on this Byzantine Empire stuff.  I'm here on the streets of Manhattan today and my mission is to find ten Ph.Ds and ask them how much they know about the Byzantine Empire."

The onus is on Mr. Mullins to prove his claims. But the fact is that I find myself every day in the company of PhD's, and non-PhD's, who have more than a passing familiarity with the Byzantine Empire. Sorry...     

QuoteAnyway, I doubt Mr. Mullins expected anyone to take his small bit of rhetorical excess to a literal extreme, or maybe he would've fashioned better evidence than something so anecdotal.  But at least you concede he wasn't claiming that the existence of the Byzantine Empire had been suppressed.

You're a very generous reader, Mr. Brocklehurst. Mr. Mullins is a lucky man.

Ah, but why keep beating this dead horse? It's a moot point. After all, Ben cinched it back in post #21: You can excise that tiny bit of rhetorical excess, and the excised version is almost the same size. Though it seems to me that there might be something Jewish in that thinking. Ben...?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Mono no aware on March 02, 2013, 11:47:49 AM
Quote from: Ancilla Domini on March 02, 2013, 10:26:21 AM
The onus is on Mr. Mullins to prove his claims. But the fact is that I find myself every day in the company of PhD's, and non-PhD's, who have more than a passing familiarity with the Byzantine Empire.

Sadly, Mr. Mullins is deceased.  As such he is no longer able to back up his claim, for which he provided only anecdotal evidence in the first place.

If your experience is that Ph.Ds are rather knowledgeable about the Byzantine Empire, contrary to Mr. Mullins' experience that they weren't, then the way to resolve the difference is to go outside both your immediate experience and Mr. Mullins'—and get a broader, more random sampling of Ph.Ds.  If, that is, you still think Mullins was making a firm dogmatic statement and not just (as it seems to me) generalizing (much in the same way some people will whine about how the classics aren't taught anymore).  But if you want to be scientific about it, you'd need that wide and random pool to draw your data from.

Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ancilla Domini on March 02, 2013, 11:50:30 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 11:47:49 AMIf your experience is that Ph.Ds are rather knowledgeable about the Byzantine Empire, contrary to Mr. Mullins' experience that they weren't, then the way to resolve the difference is to go outside both your immediate experience and Mr. Mullins'—and get a broader, more random sampling of Ph.Ds.  If, that is, you still think Mullins was making a firm dogmatic statement and not just (as it seems to me) generalizing (much in the same way some people will whine about how the classics aren't taught anymore).  But if you want to be scientific about it, you'd need that wide and random pool to draw your data from.

Indeed, Mr. Brocklehurst, on that we can agree.  :)
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Mono no aware on March 02, 2013, 11:55:10 AM
Quote from: Ancilla Domini on March 02, 2013, 11:50:30 AM
Indeed, Mr. Brocklehurst, on that we can agree.

And for that I am glad.   :)

Getting back to the OP, do you think Jews should be discouraged, in a decent society, from holding positions in finance, education, and government?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Adeodatus on March 02, 2013, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: Someone1776 on March 01, 2013, 08:40:27 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 01, 2013, 07:02:24 PM
Nor did the Orthodox priests bewilder their congregations with any vicious lies about Christ being a Jew.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNydBMu1VfI[/yt]

+1
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 02, 2013, 02:34:46 PM
I think it is wonderful how Brocklehurst and AD are applying their considerable brainpower and wit-power to this tiny problem!

They both have a command of the language, and they are showcasing it for all to see!

Their contributions to this thread are appreciated.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 02, 2013, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: trentcath on March 02, 2013, 11:04:50 AM
Anyone got any book suggestions to learn more about the Byzantine empire?

Seconded.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 02, 2013, 06:15:11 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 02, 2013, 01:01:37 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 01, 2013, 11:30:51 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 01, 2013, 08:53:04 PM
I can't see the video. What is it?

A non-rebuttal claiming your post was "insanely idiotic" and devoid of rational thought.

Someone is very unfriendly to me. He doesn't feel any warmth for me. No gooeyness is coming from him.
Tank Troll
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 02, 2013, 06:23:11 PM
As a cradle Byzantine rite who attands a Ukrainian parish, I have to remind folks that islam is a Jewish offshoot. And that the Jews nearly did exterminate the Ukrainians.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: trentcath on March 02, 2013, 08:03:29 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 02, 2013, 06:23:11 PM
As a cradle Byzantine rite who attands a Ukrainian parish, I have to remind folks that islam is a Jewish offshoot. And that the Jews nearly did exterminate the Ukrainians.
?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: dueSicilie on March 02, 2013, 08:43:09 PM
Quote from: trentcath on March 02, 2013, 08:03:29 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 02, 2013, 06:23:11 PM
As a cradle Byzantine rite who attands a Ukrainian parish, I have to remind folks that islam is a Jewish offshoot. And that the Jews nearly did exterminate the Ukrainians.
?

In the mid 1930's Jewish Bolsheviks waged a war of starvation on the Ukrainians. Millions of Ukrainians starved to death at their hands.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Christknight104 on March 02, 2013, 10:02:45 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 02, 2013, 06:23:11 PM
As a cradle Byzantine rite who attands a Ukrainian parish, I have to remind folks that islam is a Jewish offshoot. And that the Jews nearly did exterminate the Ukrainians.

The Muslim infidels would like us to believe  that their religion is an offshoot of both Christianity and Judaism, possessing the fullness of truth that both the other monotheistic religions lack with the revelation of their false prophet Mohammed.

I  think  Islam is more of an Arian offshoot. Hillaire Belloc in his superb book "The Great Heresies" lists Islam as one of the heresies, asserting that the Catholic would have looked a lot Muslim if the Arians triumphed and had their way. Belloc further states that Islam is essentially a simplification of Christianity, doing away with many miracles, dogmas, and organized clerical hierarchy, thus appealing to many.

Unlike Judaism, Islam holds the Blessed Mary Ever Virign in high regard, this point leading His Excellency Archbishop Lefebvre to conclude that Islam is closer to Catholcism than Judaism.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 02, 2013, 10:13:12 PM
I was not speaking theologically...but politically and regionally. As belloc points out in his book which I read....islam was a political movement disguised as a religion
but I dont want to derail the OP as this is about the byzantine empire and the Jews in general. But ultimately even though Constantinople held out in the end the Jews/Zionist have politically conquered nearly all the west....and were ejected politically from Russia when communism fell and now kept in check by Putin who know exactly who he's dealing with.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Mono no aware on March 02, 2013, 10:15:48 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 02, 2013, 02:34:46 PM
I think it is wonderful how Brocklehurst and AD are applying their considerable brainpower and wit-power to this tiny problem!

They both have a command of the language, and they are showcasing it for all to see!

Their contributions to this thread are appreciated.

Thank you for the kind words, Ben, but I think we have that little nitpick resolved now.  We've had our milk; now it's time to move on to solid food.

I wonder what anyone thinks about the notion in the OP that Jews ought to be kept from influential positions in finance, education, and government.  There's a famous papal bull called Cum nimis absurdum in which Pope Paul IV set down certain restrictions on Jews living in Rome and the papal states.  In one of the recommendations, he seems to limit Jews mainly to the low-class professions of garbage scavengers and junk dealers:

QuoteMoreover, these Jews are to be limited to the trade of rag-picking, or cencinariae, and they cannot trade in grain, barley or any other commodity essential to human welfare.

Should Christendom ever become resurgent, that stricture would certainly satisfy the latter-day Eustace Mullinses.  As the sentiment also found favor among a series of orthodox popes of the Counter-Reformation and is plainly counter to the objectives of Vatican II, perhaps it would please many traditionalist Catholics as well.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Christknight104 on March 02, 2013, 10:24:18 PM
This Wikipedia article has very good references on the history of Jews in the Byzantine Empire:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Byzantine_Empire
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Christknight104 on March 02, 2013, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 10:15:48 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 02, 2013, 02:34:46 PM
I think it is wonderful how Brocklehurst and AD are applying their considerable brainpower and wit-power to this tiny problem!

They both have a command of the language, and they are showcasing it for all to see!

Their contributions to this thread are appreciated.

Thank you for the kind words, Ben, but I think we have that little nitpick resolved now.  We've had our milk; now it's time to move on to solid food.

I wonder what anyone thinks about the notion in the OP that Jews ought to be kept from influential positions in finance, education, and government.  There's a famous papal bull called Cum nimis absurdum in which Pope Paul IV set down certain restrictions on Jews living in Rome and the papal states.  In one of the recommendations, he seems to limit Jews mainly to the low-class professions of garbage scavengers and junk dealers:

QuoteMoreover, these Jews are to be limited to the trade of rag-picking, or cencinariae, and they cannot trade in grain, barley or any other commodity essential to human welfare.

Should Christendom ever become resurgent, that stricture would certainly satisfy the latter-day Eustace Mullinses.  As the sentiment also found favor among a series of orthodox popes of the Counter-Reformation and is plainly counter to the objectives of Vatican II, perhaps it would please many traditionalist Catholics as well.

His Holiness Pope Paul IV also ordered that  Jews in Rome be segregated from the rest of society in ghettoes. Thus, from the time of Pope Paul IV to the time of Pius IX, Jews in the Papal States were confined to ghettoes, barred from university, and were required to attend sermons urging them to convert, as mandated and enforced by the Holy Office.

Thus, Bishop Williamson could not have been more accurate  in his assessment that Jewish power and the power of the Holy Roman Church are inversely related. If the Church is strong, the Jews are weak, and vice versa.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: dueSicilie on March 02, 2013, 10:32:34 PM
They must be limited. Our survival depends on it. They have proven themselves over the course of centuries to feign that they are weak and persecuted but try to get a stranglehold over us "goyim"

"There is already something like a Jewish monopoly in high finance ... There is the same element of Jewish monopoly in the silver trade, and in the control of various other metals, notably lead, nickel, quicksilver. What is most disquieting of all, this tendency to monopoly is spreading like a disease." -Hilaire Belloc

"All the world suffers from the usury of the Jews, their monopolies and deceit. They have brought many unfortunate people into a state of poverty, especially the farmers, working class people and the very poor.
Then as now Jews have to be reminded intermittently anew that they were enjoying rights in any country since they left Palestine and the Arabian desert, and subsequently their ethical and moral doctrines as well as their deeds rightly deserve to be exposed to criticism in whatever country they happen to live." -POPE CLEMENT VIII

"[some] individual Jews are all right, Harvey, but as a race they stink. They spoil everything they touch." -Joseph Kennedy Sr.

"The Jews form a state, and, obeying their own laws, they evade those of their host country.
The Jews always consider an oath regarding a Christian not binding. During the Campaign of 1812 the Jews were spies, they were paid by both sides, they betrayed both sides." -Count Helmuth von Moltke

"The vast majority of the "conversos" [another name for the Marranos] worked insidiously for its own interests within the different branches of the political and ecclesiastical bodies, condemned, very often openly, the doctrine of the Church, and contaminated by its influence the entire body of the believers." -Cecil Roth  Histoire des Marranes (1959)




Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Gottmitunsalex on March 02, 2013, 10:40:51 PM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 02, 2013, 10:32:34 PM
They must be limited. Our survival depends on it. They have proven themselves over the course of centuries to feign that they are weak and persecuted but try to get a stranglehold over us "goyim"


"The vast majority of the "conversos" [another name for the Marranos] worked insidiously for its own interests within the different branches of the political and ecclesiastical bodies, condemned, very often openly, the doctrine of the Church, and contaminated by its influence the entire body of the believers." -Cecil Roth  Histoire des Marranes (1959)

There are still many marranos, even outside the ecclesiastical bodies. Possibly even in traditional Catholic forums. Keep an eye out.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Mono no aware on March 02, 2013, 10:48:03 PM
This is some strong medicine you're prescribing, gentlemen.

I don't know.  Rag-picking is a pretty foul profession.  The arts should remain open to Jews, I think.  Marc Chagall, for example, was an excellent artist.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Gottmitunsalex on March 02, 2013, 10:54:56 PM
Tom Hagen:    Your new son-in-law, do we give him something important?
Don Corleone: Never. Give him a living, but never discuss the family business with him.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 12:19:34 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 10:48:03 PM
This is some strong medicine you're prescribing, gentlemen.

I don't know.  Rag-picking is a pretty foul profession.  The arts should remain open to Jews, I think.  Marc Chagall, for example, was an excellent artist.

They'll use it to corrupt souls. It's inevitable. Expulsion is really the best option.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Gottmitunsalex on March 03, 2013, 12:22:26 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 12:19:34 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 10:48:03 PM
This is some strong medicine you're prescribing, gentlemen.

I don't know.  Rag-picking is a pretty foul profession.  The arts should remain open to Jews, I think.  Marc Chagall, for example, was an excellent artist.

They'll use it to corrupt souls. It's inevitable. Expulsion is really the best option.
Emigration is the only option.

Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 12:28:22 AM
I would say "let's send 'em to Madagascar" but the ADL will twist my words to prove I have a plan to systematically murder them all.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Gottmitunsalex on March 03, 2013, 12:35:59 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 12:28:22 AM
I would say "let's send 'em to Madagascar" but the ADL will twist my words to prove I have a plan to systematically murder them all.
Quite so, quite so.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Christknight104 on March 03, 2013, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 12:28:22 AM
I would say "let's send 'em to Madagascar" but the ADL will twist my words to prove I have a plan to systematically murder them all.

The ADL will be all over you of course, since the Nazis intriguingly first planned to deport the Jews in their occupied territories  to Madagascar, the so called Madagascar Plan. This scheme was  eventually abandoned in 1940, and the Warsaw Ghetto finished its construction
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2013, 01:04:00 AM
It's elementary. All Catholics should seek to create Catholic states. In those states discrimination against Jews and other non-Catholics would be a given.

Expulsion is an option, but the Jews would often re-enter nations that expelled them only a few years after the fact. The interesting thing about Byzantium is that this approach wasn't taken. the Jews were permitted to live peacefully, but merely barred from holding important positions.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 01:45:15 AM
Quote from: Christknight104 on March 03, 2013, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 12:28:22 AM
I would say "let's send 'em to Madagascar" but the ADL will twist my words to prove I have a plan to systematically murder them all.

The ADL will be all over you of course, since the Nazis intriguingly first planned to deport the Jews in their occupied territories  to Madagascar, the so called Madagascar Plan. This scheme was  eventually abandoned in 1940, and the Warsaw Ghetto finished its construction

The joke was an allusion to the idea of sending the Jews to Madagascar is the evidence given that the Germans supposedly planned premeditatively to murder european Jewry. Supposedly deportation was "code" for murder.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Christknight104 on March 03, 2013, 01:57:29 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 01:45:15 AM
Quote from: Christknight104 on March 03, 2013, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 12:28:22 AM
I would say "let's send 'em to Madagascar" but the ADL will twist my words to prove I have a plan to systematically murder them all.

The ADL will be all over you of course, since the Nazis intriguingly first planned to deport the Jews in their occupied territories  to Madagascar, the so called Madagascar Plan. This scheme was  eventually abandoned in 1940, and the Warsaw Ghetto finished its construction

The joke was an allusion to the idea of sending the Jews to Madagascar is the evidence given that the Germans supposedly planned premeditatively to murder european Jewry. Supposedly deportation was "code" for murder.

Ah I see. Apparently, the Germans and SS were very creative with their euphemisms and "codes," also employing such terms such as "resettlement" and "evacuation" to refer to acts of murder.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Gottmitunsalex on March 03, 2013, 01:59:42 AM
Quote from: Christknight104 on March 03, 2013, 01:57:29 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 01:45:15 AM
Quote from: Christknight104 on March 03, 2013, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 12:28:22 AM
I would say "let's send 'em to Madagascar" but the ADL will twist my words to prove I have a plan to systematically murder them all.

The ADL will be all over you of course, since the Nazis intriguingly first planned to deport the Jews in their occupied territories  to Madagascar, the so called Madagascar Plan. This scheme was  eventually abandoned in 1940, and the Warsaw Ghetto finished its construction

The joke was an allusion to the idea of sending the Jews to Madagascar is the evidence given that the Germans supposedly planned premeditatively to murder european Jewry. Supposedly deportation was "code" for murder.

Ah I see. Apparently, the Germans and SS were very creative with their euphemisms and "codes," also employing such terms such as "resettlement" and "evacuation" to refer to acts of murder.
I saw that movie too!
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Christknight104 on March 03, 2013, 01:59:58 AM
This YouTube video summarizes all the instances the Jews were expelled these past 1800 years or so.

[yt]3PyoXDnUKgM[/yt]
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 02:00:36 AM
Well, its more like they're trying to fabricate proof of intent out of thin air as there is zero official documentation that shows that mass murder was their intent.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Christknight104 on March 03, 2013, 02:01:37 AM
Quote from: Gottmitunsalex on March 03, 2013, 01:59:42 AM
Quote from: Christknight104 on March 03, 2013, 01:57:29 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 01:45:15 AM
Quote from: Christknight104 on March 03, 2013, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 12:28:22 AM
I would say "let's send 'em to Madagascar" but the ADL will twist my words to prove I have a plan to systematically murder them all.

The ADL will be all over you of course, since the Nazis intriguingly first planned to deport the Jews in their occupied territories  to Madagascar, the so called Madagascar Plan. This scheme was  eventually abandoned in 1940, and the Warsaw Ghetto finished its construction

The joke was an allusion to the idea of sending the Jews to Madagascar is the evidence given that the Germans supposedly planned premeditatively to murder european Jewry. Supposedly deportation was "code" for murder.

Ah I see. Apparently, the Germans and SS were very creative with their euphemisms and "codes," also employing such terms such as "resettlement" and "evacuation" to refer to acts of murder.
I saw that movie too!

Are you referring to the film Conspiracy? That was a splendid film indeed.

Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Gottmitunsalex on March 03, 2013, 02:04:11 AM
Quote from: Christknight104 on March 03, 2013, 02:01:37 AM
Quote from: Gottmitunsalex on March 03, 2013, 01:59:42 AM
Quote from: Christknight104 on March 03, 2013, 01:57:29 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 01:45:15 AM
Quote from: Christknight104 on March 03, 2013, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 12:28:22 AM
I would say "let's send 'em to Madagascar" but the ADL will twist my words to prove I have a plan to systematically murder them all.

The ADL will be all over you of course, since the Nazis intriguingly first planned to deport the Jews in their occupied territories  to Madagascar, the so called Madagascar Plan. This scheme was  eventually abandoned in 1940, and the Warsaw Ghetto finished its construction

The joke was an allusion to the idea of sending the Jews to Madagascar is the evidence given that the Germans supposedly planned premeditatively to murder european Jewry. Supposedly deportation was "code" for murder.

Ah I see. Apparently, the Germans and SS were very creative with their euphemisms and "codes," also employing such terms such as "resettlement" and "evacuation" to refer to acts of murder.
I saw that movie too!

Are you referring to the film Conspiracy? That was a splendid film indeed.
Historically accurate.  ::)
But great acting.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5H2uzZYma8[/yt]
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Bonaventure on March 03, 2013, 02:19:15 AM
Of interest is that the Byzantines never thought of or called themselves Byzantines. They were simply "Romans."

The empire WAS Catholic until the 11th century as well.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 02:21:45 AM
Constantine XI died an Eastern Catholic.

The See of New Rome was in communion with the See of Rome when the City fell.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Bonaventure on March 03, 2013, 02:23:45 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 02:21:45 AM
Constantine XI died an Eastern Catholic.

The See of New Rome was in communion with the See of Rome when the City fell.

Was thus during Florence? Constance? Basel? How sad. I learned something new.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Someone1776 on March 03, 2013, 02:44:45 AM
Quote from: Bonaventure on March 03, 2013, 02:23:45 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 02:21:45 AM
Constantine XI died an Eastern Catholic.

The See of New Rome was in communion with the See of Rome when the City fell.

Was thus during Florence? Constance? Basel? How sad. I learned something new.

The Council of Florence. The emperor personally attended the council and every East-West issue was hammered out. The emperor returned to Constantinople with promises that the West would send support to defend against the Ottomans...support which never materialized. 

According to legend, as Constantinople fell a Latin priest and an Eastern priest were holding a joint-mass in the Hagia Sophia when the wall opened up and the two priests ran inside before it closed up. Supposedly, one day the wall will open up again and the two priests will complete the mass. 

After the Ottmans conquered Constantinople they overthrew the Cathoic Patriarch and found someone who repudiated the Council of Florence  to become Patriarch. The Ottomans saw a united Christendom as a threat and they saw to it that a new schism would begin. 
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Bonaventure on March 03, 2013, 02:49:20 AM
Quote from: Someone1776 on March 03, 2013, 02:44:45 AM
Quote from: Bonaventure on March 03, 2013, 02:23:45 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 02:21:45 AM
Constantine XI died an Eastern Catholic.

The See of New Rome was in communion with the See of Rome when the City fell.

Was thus during Florence? Constance? Basel? How sad. I learned something new.

The Council of Florence. The emperor personally attended the council and every East-West issue was hammered out. The emperor returned to Constantinople with promises that the West would send support to defend against the Ottomans...support which never materialized. 

According to legend, as Constantinople fell a Latin priest and an Eastern priest were holding a joint-mass in the Hagia Sophia when the wall opened up and the two priests ran inside before it closed up. Supposedly, one day the wall will open up again and the two priests will complete the mass. 

After the Ottmans conquered Constantinople they overthrew the Cathoic Patriarch and found someone who repudiated the Council of Florence  to become Patriarch. The Ottomans saw a united Christendom as a threat and they saw to it that a new schism would begin.

Thank you. We can only hope for the day the wall reopens. Beautiful story.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 02:54:13 AM
Quote from: Someone1776 on March 03, 2013, 02:44:45 AM
Quote from: Bonaventure on March 03, 2013, 02:23:45 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 02:21:45 AM
Constantine XI died an Eastern Catholic.

The See of New Rome was in communion with the See of Rome when the City fell.

Was thus during Florence? Constance? Basel? How sad. I learned something new.

The Council of Florence. The emperor personally attended the council and every East-West issue was hammered out. The emperor returned to Constantinople with promises that the West would send support to defend against the Ottomans...support which never materialized. 

According to legend, as Constantinople fell a Latin priest and an Eastern priest were holding a joint-mass in the Hagia Sophia when the wall opened up and the two priests ran inside before it closed up. Supposedly, one day the wall will open up again and the two priests will complete the mass. 

After the Ottmans conquered Constantinople they overthrew the Cathoic Patriarch and found someone who repudiated the Council of Florence  to become Patriarch. The Ottomans saw a united Christendom as a threat and they saw to it that a new schism would begin.

The schmatic chanted "better the turkish turban than the papal tiara" they got their wish, unfortunately...
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Bonaventure on March 03, 2013, 02:55:46 AM
I remember seeing that on a coin. Be careful what you wish for.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Der Kaiser on March 03, 2013, 03:58:39 AM
Quote from: Ben on March 01, 2013, 07:02:24 PM
There is no need to kill the Jews.
In fact, every pogrom in history has played into their hands, and has in many instances been cleverly instigated by them. Get the
Jews out of banking and they cannot control the economic life of the community. Get the Jews out of education and they cannot
pervert the minds of the young to their subversive doctrines. Get the Jews out of government and they cannot betray the
nation.

So true, just look at the holocaust. Hitler gave the Jews their biggest tool for enslaving the Goyim and biggest money maker in "The Holocaust Industry" (a phrase coined by Norman Finkelstein a Jewish professor who was disgusted by what his people were doing by making the holocaust into a huge cash cow)

Let's not forget the Media. The media is owned by them. They control what mainstream Americans hear as far as news goes and lets not even touch on the Hollywood subject.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Roland Deschain on March 03, 2013, 07:28:12 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 02:54:13 AM
Quote from: Someone1776 on March 03, 2013, 02:44:45 AM
Quote from: Bonaventure on March 03, 2013, 02:23:45 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 02:21:45 AM
Constantine XI died an Eastern Catholic.

The See of New Rome was in communion with the See of Rome when the City fell.

Was thus during Florence? Constance? Basel? How sad. I learned something new.

The Council of Florence. The emperor personally attended the council and every East-West issue was hammered out. The emperor returned to Constantinople with promises that the West would send support to defend against the Ottomans...support which never materialized. 

According to legend, as Constantinople fell a Latin priest and an Eastern priest were holding a joint-mass in the Hagia Sophia when the wall opened up and the two priests ran inside before it closed up. Supposedly, one day the wall will open up again and the two priests will complete the mass. 

After the Ottmans conquered Constantinople they overthrew the Cathoic Patriarch and found someone who repudiated the Council of Florence  to become Patriarch. The Ottomans saw a united Christendom as a threat and they saw to it that a new schism would begin.

The schmatic chanted "better the turkish turban than the papal tiara" they got their wish, unfortunately...

I suppose the sacking of Constantinople and the desecration of Hagia Sophia left a bitter taste in their mouth.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 03, 2013, 08:01:24 AM
There seems to be some support for the idea that the way to solve the "Jewish problem"  is to make it illegal for them to hold important positions in certain sectors.

I do not see how this solution could work, given the premises that Ben and others seem to work from.  You have claimed that Jews are duplicitous and power-hungry parasites on Christian society.  Faced with the sort of laws you describe, they would simply hide their Judaism.  The situation would be like that of the Marranos in Spain.  The only solution to the "Jewish problem" which follows from your beliefs is that Jews must be rounded up and killed. 

This form of argument, by the way, is called reductio ad absurdum.  In this technique, one shows that following the opponents premises leads to an unacceptable conclusion.  But perhaps I should not assume that everyone considers this conclusion unacceptable.  Ben, could you please clarify whether you believe it is wrong to round up all the Jews and kill them.  If you do believe this could you also explain why.

Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Heinrich on March 03, 2013, 09:44:50 AM
Quote from: Someone1776 on March 03, 2013, 02:44:45 AM
Quote from: Bonaventure on March 03, 2013, 02:23:45 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 02:21:45 AM
Constantine XI died an Eastern Catholic.

The See of New Rome was in communion with the See of Rome when the City fell.

Was thus during Florence? Constance? Basel? How sad. I learned something new.

The Council of Florence. The emperor personally attended the council and every East-West issue was hammered out. The emperor returned to Constantinople with promises that the West would send support to defend against the Ottomans...support which never materialized. 

According to legend, as Constantinople fell a Latin priest and an Eastern priest were holding a joint-mass in the Hagia Sophia when the wall opened up and the two priests ran inside before it closed up. Supposedly, one day the wall will open up again and the two priests will complete the mass. 

After the Ottmans conquered Constantinople they overthrew the Cathoic Patriarch and found someone who repudiated the Council of Florence  to become Patriarch. The Ottomans saw a united Christendom as a threat and they saw to it that a new schism would begin.

Who financed the Ottomans?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 09:56:34 AM
Quote from: RealJayneK on March 03, 2013, 08:01:24 AM
There seems to be some support for the idea that the way to solve the "Jewish problem"  is to make it illegal for them to hold important positions in certain sectors.

I do not see how this solution could work, given the premises that Ben and others seem to work from.  You have claimed that Jews are duplicitous and power-hungry parasites on Christian society.  Faced with the sort of laws you describe, they would simply hide their Judaism.  The situation would be like that of the Marranos in Spain.  The only solution to the "Jewish problem" which follows from your beliefs is that Jews must be rounded up and killed. 

This form of argument, by the way, is called reductio ad absurdum.  In this technique, one shows that following the opponents premises leads to an unacceptable conclusion.  But perhaps I should not assume that everyone considers this conclusion unacceptable.  Ben, could you please clarify whether you believe it is wrong to round up all the Jews and kill them.  If you do believe this could you also explain why.

No one is saying anything about killing them. Don't put words in our mouths.

Expelling Jews from a Christian society is not anything like murder.

And a solution to neo-Marranos would be simple, another Inquistion.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 03, 2013, 10:41:27 AM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 09:56:34 AM
Quote from: RealJayneK on March 03, 2013, 08:01:24 AM
There seems to be some support for the idea that the way to solve the "Jewish problem"  is to make it illegal for them to hold important positions in certain sectors.

I do not see how this solution could work, given the premises that Ben and others seem to work from.  You have claimed that Jews are duplicitous and power-hungry parasites on Christian society.  Faced with the sort of laws you describe, they would simply hide their Judaism.  The situation would be like that of the Marranos in Spain.  The only solution to the "Jewish problem" which follows from your beliefs is that Jews must be rounded up and killed. 

This form of argument, by the way, is called reductio ad absurdum.  In this technique, one shows that following the opponents premises leads to an unacceptable conclusion.  But perhaps I should not assume that everyone considers this conclusion unacceptable.  Ben, could you please clarify whether you believe it is wrong to round up all the Jews and kill them.  If you do believe this could you also explain why.

No one is saying anything about killing them. Don't put words in our mouths.

Expelling Jews from a Christian society is not anything like murder.

And a solution to neo-Marranos would be simple, another Inquistion.

I am not putting words in anyone's mouth.  I am saying that the logical conclusion of the claims made here about Jews is that Jews must be eradicated.  If they are completely untrustworthy and by nature parasites on society, then that is the only long term solution. 

So I am wondering who here thinks that is unacceptable to round up all the Jews and kill them.  It is a simple question.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 10:46:28 AM
Christian love prevents us from murdering them. The Popes have always firmly rebuked them and kept them under control to prevent their malice, but never attacked them.



Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 11:50:50 AM
The jwish problem so called cannot be solved because they are the victors and hold nearly all the keys of secular and dare I say religious power. The only solution is direct intervention of Heaven. The church is is on the via delarosa. That being said ..like John the Baptist to Herod..we should never cease denounceing the perfidious chosenites...even if it means our head on a platter.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Mono no aware on March 03, 2013, 12:23:03 PM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 12:19:34 AM
Quote from: Mr Brocklehurst on March 02, 2013, 10:48:03 PM
This is some strong medicine you're prescribing, gentlemen.

I don't know.  Rag-picking is a pretty foul profession.  The arts should remain open to Jews, I think.  Marc Chagall, for example, was an excellent artist.

They'll use it to corrupt souls. It's inevitable. Expulsion is really the best option.

You wouldn't even allow them the arts?  What about Bob Dylan?  I think you'd have to have "old Bob," as Neil Young calls him.  Simon and Garfunkel were Jewish, too.  Had they been forced into garbage-picking, the world would've been denied The Sound of Silence and Mrs. Robinson.

Unless: perhaps you would allow Jewish musicians to at least do so some busking on the city streets.  In which case we'd still have old Bob, but instead of being the smiling, fresh-faced, puffy-haired lad on the Columbia record covers, he would've been a sad and grubby little guy in frayed tweeds, with a scruffy beard and earlocks, sitting on a curb with his guitar and harmonica brace, wondering how many years must some people exist before they're allowed to be free.  It would be kind of surreal.  You'd be tossing your quarters into the hat of a genius as you passed him by.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 12:54:18 PM
Bob dylan is a genius like picasso...genius scam artists. Convince other that their lack of talent is actually a plus...and if you dont see their genius there is something wrong with you.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2013, 01:29:21 PM
Quote from: RealJayneK on March 03, 2013, 08:01:24 AM
There seems to be some support for the idea that the way to solve the "Jewish problem"  is to make it illegal for them to hold important positions in certain sectors.

I do not see how this solution could work, given the premises that Ben and others seem to work from.  You have claimed that Jews are duplicitous and power-hungry parasites on Christian society.  Faced with the sort of laws you describe, they would simply hide their Judaism.  The situation would be like that of the Marranos in Spain.  The only solution to the "Jewish problem" which follows from your beliefs is that Jews must be rounded up and killed. 

This form of argument, by the way, is called reductio ad absurdum.  In this technique, one shows that following the opponents premises leads to an unacceptable conclusion.  But perhaps I should not assume that everyone considers this conclusion unacceptable.  Ben, could you please clarify whether you believe it is wrong to round up all the Jews and kill them. If you do believe this could you also explain why.

One of the reasons people don't trust you is because you try to ensnare people who have Catholic beliefs about the Jews. This post is a case in point.

Killing Jews in self-defense is moral, but rounding them all up and murdering them is not the way Catholics have ever approached the Jewish problem. It's the way Jews have often dealt with their gentile problem though. As Mullins said, pogroms usually backfire on gentiles.

From history it's obvious that some states have successfully limited Jewish encroachments into positions of power more successfully than others.

The Byzantines, or East Romans, are worth studying on this issue.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 01:39:09 PM
Ben its a futile exercise.....they won antichrist rules the world...only heaven can expell them now.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2013, 01:41:08 PM
I kind of agree with you. Their power does seem monolithic.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Greg on March 03, 2013, 02:00:59 PM
I deal with a LOT of Jews in my work and I have to say I like every single one of them.  I just checked my LinkedIn account to make sure this was correct.

My personal experience of them has been nothing but positive.  I tell most that I am a Catholic and a Traditionalist one at that.  Never had the slightest bit of hatred from them or nastiness about it.  Most respect the fact that I have a moral code and a large family.  Never had a Jew moan about me poisoning the planet either with my large family.  Secular non-Jews commonly do this or make a catty comment.

I grew up in the most Jewish part of London with the highest concentration of secular Jews anywhere in the UK.  Like Stamford Hill, without the ringlets and black clothes.

How many of you have had first hand bad experiences with Jews?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2013, 02:07:56 PM
That's because you're Judaized. Most people are. Even I am to some extent. Though not enough to be pro-Israel.

My experience with Jews is vast. Though if it weren't I would probably know more about them. They are very charming one on one, just so long as certain subjects aren't breached like, "Should Jews have so much power?"

But their collective traits aren't very attractive.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Greg on March 03, 2013, 02:15:14 PM
Why have they let me make such a good living then?  Why not collectivize and replace me with one of their own?  They could easily do it.  Why let a practicing Catholic into their world to advise their firms and take their money?  That seems daft when they could get a nice Jewish boy to do it instead.

How do non-Jews get onto the boards of their companies?

I think most powerful people get pretty defensive when you suggest taking their power away.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 02:59:59 PM
Do you like the Jews so much that you offer to tell them about your Faith in Christ?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2013, 03:34:29 PM
Quote from: Greg on March 03, 2013, 02:15:14 PM
Why have they let me make such a good living then?  Why not collectivize and replace me with one of their own?  They could easily do it. 

And they do. That's why they're overrepresented at the higher echelons. Ever heard of tribal networking?

QuoteWhy let a practicing Catholic into their world to advise their firms and take their money?  That seems daft when they could get a nice Jewish boy to do it instead.

How do non-Jews get onto the boards of their companies?

They need a servant class and also perhaps they are not sufficiently powerful at this point in time to completely cut gentiles off from a slice of the pie. Perhaps they prefer a gentile after their own fashion to a Jew who is not. The more Judaized the gentile, the less problem Jews will have in allowing that gentile to enrich himself.

That you are pro-Israel, and appear to be feminist and PC on race tells me that you're perfect material for them.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2013, 03:35:03 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 02:59:59 PM
Do you like the Jews so much that you offer to tell them about your Faith in Christ?

Good question.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Graham on March 03, 2013, 03:48:24 PM
Quote from: Greg on March 03, 2013, 02:15:14 PM
Why have they let me make such a good living then?  Why not collectivize and replace me with one of their own?  They could easily do it.  Why let a practicing Catholic into their world to advise their firms and take their money?  That seems daft when they could get a nice Jewish boy to do it instead.

You're a useful idiot. You come back to us and report that powerful Jews are all nice people. Meanwhile, they silently maneouvre to use and break us through war, usury, and demoralization.

Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Greg on March 03, 2013, 03:57:10 PM
Or maybe you're a useless idiot who gets into debt, has failed to achieve anything and thus get demoralised and looks for a bogeyman to blame.

That's possible too isn't it?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Greg on March 03, 2013, 03:58:46 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 02:59:59 PM
Do you like the Jews so much that you offer to tell them about your Faith in Christ?

Can you imagine me passing up an opportunity for a good argument?

I tell them all the time.  Keeps my claws sharp.  They are smart cookies the Jews.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Greg on March 03, 2013, 04:06:11 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 03, 2013, 03:34:29 PM
Quote from: Greg on March 03, 2013, 02:15:14 PM
Why have they let me make such a good living then?  Why not collectivize and replace me with one of their own?  They could easily do it. 

And they do. That's why they're overrepresented at the higher echelons. Ever heard of tribal networking?

QuoteWhy let a practicing Catholic into their world to advise their firms and take their money?  That seems daft when they could get a nice Jewish boy to do it instead.

How do non-Jews get onto the boards of their companies?

They need a servant class and also perhaps they are not sufficiently powerful at this point in time to completely cut gentiles off from a slice of the pie. Perhaps they prefer a gentile after their own fashion to a Jew who is not. The more Judaized the gentile, the less problem Jews will have in allowing that gentile to enrich himself.

That you are pro-Israel, and appear to be feminist and PC on race tells me that you're perfect material for them.

Gives them a fair amount of choice then for "perfect material".

They only have to select out pro-Hamas, misogynistic, racists.  That must be less than 0.03% of the working population.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2013, 04:13:17 PM
Quote from: Greg on March 03, 2013, 03:57:10 PM
Or maybe you're a useless idiot who gets into debt, has failed to achieve anything and thus get demoralised and looks for a bogeyman to blame.

That's possible too isn't it?

For some maybe. Though I don't think many gentiles wish they were Jews. Jews often think that dislike of them is due to envy. That's a reassuring thought to them. It's odd for a self-described trad Catholic to agree with that accusation. If you're not an enemy of the Jews you really have no place in the Church.

I remember when I first started to become aware of the "Jewish problem." It depressed me to no end and I resisted dealing with it. It meant my view of reality was completely distorted. And the fact that I was heavily Judaized only added to the discomfort.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2013, 04:14:28 PM
Quote from: Greg on March 03, 2013, 04:06:11 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 03, 2013, 03:34:29 PM
Quote from: Greg on March 03, 2013, 02:15:14 PM
Why have they let me make such a good living then?  Why not collectivize and replace me with one of their own?  They could easily do it. 

And they do. That's why they're overrepresented at the higher echelons. Ever heard of tribal networking?

QuoteWhy let a practicing Catholic into their world to advise their firms and take their money?  That seems daft when they could get a nice Jewish boy to do it instead.

How do non-Jews get onto the boards of their companies?

They need a servant class and also perhaps they are not sufficiently powerful at this point in time to completely cut gentiles off from a slice of the pie. Perhaps they prefer a gentile after their own fashion to a Jew who is not. The more Judaized the gentile, the less problem Jews will have in allowing that gentile to enrich himself.

That you are pro-Israel, and appear to be feminist and PC on race tells me that you're perfect material for them.

Gives them a fair amount of choice then for "perfect material".

They only have to select out pro-Hamas, misogynistic, racists.  That must be less than 0.03% of the working population.

One thing about the Jews, is that as foul as they are, they are highly amusing. You share that trait.  ;)
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Graham on March 03, 2013, 04:35:08 PM
Quote from: Greg on March 03, 2013, 03:57:10 PM
Or maybe you're a useless idiot who gets into debt, has failed to achieve anything and thus get demoralised and looks for a bogeyman to blame.

That's possible too isn't it?

That's sweet that you're worried about me, but I'm more interested in your counterargument. You know some rich Jews  (congrats!) and you think they're nice. Meanwhile, the average household debt in the UK is £60,000, and Zionists are pulling your people into foreign wars.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 03, 2013, 04:41:59 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 03, 2013, 01:29:21 PM
Quote from: RealJayneK on March 03, 2013, 08:01:24 AM
There seems to be some support for the idea that the way to solve the "Jewish problem"  is to make it illegal for them to hold important positions in certain sectors.

I do not see how this solution could work, given the premises that Ben and others seem to work from.  You have claimed that Jews are duplicitous and power-hungry parasites on Christian society.  Faced with the sort of laws you describe, they would simply hide their Judaism.  The situation would be like that of the Marranos in Spain.  The only solution to the "Jewish problem" which follows from your beliefs is that Jews must be rounded up and killed. 

This form of argument, by the way, is called reductio ad absurdum.  In this technique, one shows that following the opponents premises leads to an unacceptable conclusion.  But perhaps I should not assume that everyone considers this conclusion unacceptable.  Ben, could you please clarify whether you believe it is wrong to round up all the Jews and kill them. If you do believe this could you also explain why.

One of the reasons people don't trust you is because you try to ensnare people who have Catholic beliefs about the Jews. This post is a case in point.

How was that a trick question?  It was not clear to me from your posts that you believe it is wrong to murder Jews, so I asked.

Quote from: Ben on March 03, 2013, 01:29:21 PM
Killing Jews in self-defense is moral, but rounding them all up and murdering them is not the way Catholics have ever approached the Jewish problem. It's the way Jews have often dealt with their gentile problem though. As Mullins said, pogroms usually backfire on gentiles.

From history it's obvious that some states have successfully limited Jewish encroachments into positions of power more successfully than others.

The Byzantines, or East Romans, are worth studying on this issue.

So far the only evidence that the Byzantines had successful dealings with Jews is the unsupported claim by Mullins.  He does not have a lot of credibility after his claim of attempts to suppress knowledge of the Byzantine Empire.

If Jews are really the way that you say they are, there is no way that your proposed solution would work.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Graham on March 03, 2013, 04:53:41 PM
Jayne, no one is arguing that the Jews are the source of all evil, that we would have heaven on earth if they were gone. Even if they were, it is a fundamental moral precept that one cannot commit evil acts (such as murder) that good may come of them. Thus Catholic states must control them in other ways, and simply because nothing is bound to be 100% successful doesn't mean nothing should be tried. Jail time and corporal punishment have never totally eliminated crime either. Your reductio ad absurdem is unsuccessful.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Greg on March 03, 2013, 05:04:06 PM
Quote from: Graham on March 03, 2013, 04:35:08 PM
Quote from: Greg on March 03, 2013, 03:57:10 PM
Or maybe you're a useless idiot who gets into debt, has failed to achieve anything and thus get demoralised and looks for a bogeyman to blame.

That's possible too isn't it?

That's sweet that you're worried about me, but I'm more interested in your counterargument. You know some rich Jews  (congrats!) and you think they're nice. Meanwhile, the average household debt in the UK is £60,000, and Zionists are pulling your people into foreign wars.

You act as though people have no choice in getting into debt.  If you don't borrow money you owe nothing.  People make a choice to enjoy now and pay later.  If it all gets too much they can declare themselves bankrupt.  Overall pretty cushy.

As for foreign wars, Britain has been involved in those forever and the Jews had sod all to do with most of them.  It is great practice.  We kicked the Argentinians arse out of the Falklands with a 10 to 1 kill ratio precisely because we had soldiers and officers and airmen who had seen real battle whereas they had nobody.  Practice makes perfect.

Besides they are all volunteers.  My nephew went to Afghanistan and couldn't wait to slot his first Taliban.  That is how most soldiers are.  That they might get killed or injured should hardly come as a surprise.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 03, 2013, 05:06:48 PM
Quote from: Graham on March 03, 2013, 04:53:41 PM
Jayne, no one is arguing that the Jews are the source of all evil, that we would have heaven on earth if they were gone. Even if they were, it is a fundamental moral precept that one cannot commit evil acts (such as murder) that good may come of them. Thus Catholic states must control them in other ways, and simply because nothing is bound to be 100% successful doesn't mean nothing should be tried. Jail time and corporal punishment have never totally eliminated crime either. Your reductio ad absurdem is unsuccessful.

There is no credible evidence (because we certainly can't count Mullins) that restricting the professions available to Jews will have any success at all. 

One reason that we ended up with a disproportionate number of Jews in banking was that there were restrictions on Jews owning land and engaging in most professions. Money lending was one of the few options left open to them. The attempt to control Jews ended up making things worse.

I also have concerns about attempting to control Jews at the same time as trying to bring them to Christ.  It seems unlikely that telling people they are only allowed to be garbage collectors will help them to understand how much God loves them.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2013, 05:27:06 PM
Jayne and GoogleGreg make quite the team!

It's tedious to argue with people who are devious. The only thing to do is to mock them. By arguing with these two all the work is on your end, and you end becoming their Pavlovian puppet.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 05:39:10 PM
Quote from: Greg on March 03, 2013, 03:58:46 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 02:59:59 PM
Do you like the Jews so much that you offer to tell them about your Faith in Christ?

Can you imagine me passing up an opportunity for a good argument?

I tell them all the time.  Keeps my claws sharp.  They are smart cookies the Jews.
awesome...what do they say?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 03, 2013, 06:19:20 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 03, 2013, 05:27:06 PM
Jayne and GoogleGreg make quite the team!

It's tedious to argue with people who are devious. The only thing to do is to mock them. By arguing with these two all the work is on your end, and you end becoming their Pavlovian puppet.

Thank you for admitting that you cannot come up with a counter-argument.  It is odd, however, that you identified a straight-forward logical argument as devious. 
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 06:49:58 PM
When the Jewish Bolshevics took over and ruled russia, useing the communist worldview invented by Jewish intellectuals, and the nation kept alive by Jewish Bankers in America the fate of over 140,000,000 millions souls were sealed in a mtter of 70 years. No other group in the known history of man had been able to kill so many. Fast forward 2013.....millions upon millions of abortions justified by materialist marxists thinking and the so called "jewish problem" takes on an even more diabolic shade. Millions of souls lost to ACLU type suppresion of Christianity in American culture...millions of souls lost to the infamy of Hollywood, spewing its pornographic unchristian filth into the hearts and minds of the people. It is no wonder Our Lady had to come to warn us...and the spineless Popes ignored her warnings.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Graham on March 03, 2013, 06:59:40 PM
Quote from: RealJayneK on March 03, 2013, 05:06:48 PM
Quote from: Graham on March 03, 2013, 04:53:41 PM
Jayne, no one is arguing that the Jews are the source of all evil, that we would have heaven on earth if they were gone. Even if they were, it is a fundamental moral precept that one cannot commit evil acts (such as murder) that good may come of them. Thus Catholic states must control them in other ways, and simply because nothing is bound to be 100% successful doesn't mean nothing should be tried. Jail time and corporal punishment have never totally eliminated crime either. Your reductio ad absurdem is unsuccessful.

There is no credible evidence (because we certainly can't count Mullins) that restricting the professions available to Jews will have any success at all.

Various restrictions were common up until the 19th Century emancipation. Given the rise in Jewish influence since, it's clear that restrictions worked to some extent, and in any case worked better than emancipation. And it stands to reason. 

Quote from: JayneKOne reason that we ended up with a disproportionate number of Jews in banking was that there were restrictions on Jews owning land and engaging in most professions. Money lending was one of the few options left open to them. The attempt to control Jews ended up making things worse.

There is something definitely off about this line of thought that Jews were simply forced into predatory lending. Were St. Louis and Innocent III so stupid and malevolent that they couldn't see this, when they acted to clamp down on it in on behalf of their Christian subjects? There must be more to the story. Besides, it cannot explain the exhorbitant interest rates Jews often charged, which is what they were repeatedly condemned for.

Quote from: JayneKI also have concerns about attempting to control Jews at the same time as trying to bring them to Christ.  It seems unlikely that telling people they are only allowed to be garbage collectors will help them to understand how much God loves them.

Restrictions are intended as self-defense against an intransigent alien ethnicity. Most Jews are not interested in conversion, regardless of whether Catholics as a group are submissive or permissive towards them; in fact they only seem to grow more haughty and malevolent, as the gist of recent history goes to show.

And it is not as though professional restrictions applied only to Jews. We are talking of the feudal era, here. Half the Catholics were peasantry, bound to the land. Why have any particular sympathy for the Jews? I don't fathom it. In fact, I think there's something wrong with it.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 07:20:33 PM
He who denys that Christ has come in the flesh is of antichrist
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2013, 07:38:10 PM
Hey Graham, what are the chances she doesn't know all that? That what you're saying is news to her?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 03, 2013, 07:45:43 PM
Quote from: Graham on March 03, 2013, 06:59:40 PM
Quote from: RealJayneK on March 03, 2013, 05:06:48 PM
Quote from: Graham on March 03, 2013, 04:53:41 PM
Jayne, no one is arguing that the Jews are the source of all evil, that we would have heaven on earth if they were gone. Even if they were, it is a fundamental moral precept that one cannot commit evil acts (such as murder) that good may come of them. Thus Catholic states must control them in other ways, and simply because nothing is bound to be 100% successful doesn't mean nothing should be tried. Jail time and corporal punishment have never totally eliminated crime either. Your reductio ad absurdem is unsuccessful.

There is no credible evidence (because we certainly can't count Mullins) that restricting the professions available to Jews will have any success at all.

Various restrictions were common up until the 19th Century emancipation. Given the rise in Jewish influence since, it's clear that restrictions worked to some extent, and in any case worked better than emancipation. And it stands to reason. 

Right now, Judaism is the weakest it has ever been.  They will not survive if current trends continue.  The lack of restrictions means that Jews become assimilated into the dominant culture and lose their sense of identity.  Inter-marriage with non-Jews is at all time high.  Jews who practice their religion become fewer and fewer.  A few more generations like this and there will not be any Jews to have influence. 

They respond to restrictions and persecution with a stronger sense of identity and hostility toward non-Jews.  They respond to being treated like everyone else by letting go of Judaism.

Quote from: Graham on March 03, 2013, 06:59:40 PM
Quote from: JayneKOne reason that we ended up with a disproportionate number of Jews in banking was that there were restrictions on Jews owning land and engaging in most professions. Money lending was one of the few options left open to them. The attempt to control Jews ended up making things worse.

There is something definitely off about this line of thought that Jews were simply forced into predatory lending. Were St. Louis and Innocent III so stupid and malevolent that they couldn't see this, when they acted to clamp down on it in on behalf of their Christian subjects? There must be more to the story. Besides, it cannot explain the exhorbitant interest rates Jews often charged, which is what they were repeatedly condemned for.

Of course, they weren't forced into predatory lending.  They chose to be predatory.  But money lending was one of few means of livelihood left open to them.

Quote from: Graham on March 03, 2013, 06:59:40 PM
Quote from: JayneKI also have concerns about attempting to control Jews at the same time as trying to bring them to Christ.  It seems unlikely that telling people they are only allowed to be garbage collectors will help them to understand how much God loves them.

Restrictions are intended as self-defense against an intransigent alien ethnicity. Most Jews are not interested in conversion, regardless of whether Catholics as a group are submissive or permissive towards them; in fact they only seem to grow more haughty and malevolent, as the gist of recent history goes to show.

And it is not as though professional restrictions applied only to Jews. We are talking of the feudal era, here. Half the Catholics were peasantry, bound to the land. Why have any particular sympathy for the Jews? I don't fathom it. In fact, I think there's something wrong with it.

I did not say anything about having particular sympathy for Jews.  If the highest law is the salvation of souls then encouraging conversions should be the determining factor in establishing policies toward Jews.  There is nothing in Catholic tradition that says it is OK to say "well they won't convert anyhow so we don't need to think about this."
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 03, 2013, 07:52:05 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 03, 2013, 07:38:10 PM
Hey Graham, what are the chances she doesn't know all that? That what you're saying is news to her?

What are the chances that you will stop sniping at me?  Could you please engage in a reasoned argument without personal attacks?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 08:12:22 PM
I do not at all understand the jayneattacks...really guys. Shes a dame...ya dont treat dames like this even if ya dont like them. And I am not being sarcastic.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 03, 2013, 08:23:02 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 08:12:22 PM
I do not at all understand the jayneattacks...really guys. Shes a dame...ya dont treat dames like this even if ya dont like them. And I am not being sarcastic.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2013, 08:42:28 PM
voxxpopulisuxx, stop playing the white knight act. You're becoming as laughable as KK.

I always knew you were a bit of a feminist. How else could you be so cozy on FE for so long? At least you're good on the Jews.

If Jaynek is Catholic in any sense, it's only in a baptismal sense. She antagonizes and baits and tries to entrap Catholics who have the right views on the Jews. That makes her an enemy. Same goes for GoogleGreg.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: tmw89 on March 03, 2013, 08:53:45 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 03, 2013, 08:42:28 PM
voxxpopulisuxx, stop playing the white knight act. You're becoming as laughable as KK.

No need to attack either of these men - I disagree with them RE this... subject... but that's little reason to label them as "laughable."
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 03, 2013, 08:56:40 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 03, 2013, 08:42:28 PM
voxxpopulisuxx, stop playing the white knight act. You're becoming as laughable as KK.

I always knew you were a bit of a feminist. How else could you be so cozy on FE for so long? At least you're good on the Jews.

Defending women in a chivalrous way is a rejection of feminism and one of the best ways to oppose it.  It is also very noble and admirable.  How dare you say it is laughable!

Quote from: Ben on March 03, 2013, 08:42:28 PM
If Jaynek is Catholic in any sense, it's only in a baptismal sense. She antagonizes and baits and tries to entrap Catholics who have the right views on the Jews. That makes her an enemy. Same goes for GoogleGreg.

It is a discussion forum.  People express opinions and make arguments in support of their views.  If having someone disagree with you makes you feel like you are being antagonized, baited and entrapped, then maybe you should reconsider your participation.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2013, 08:58:04 PM
Quote from: tmw89 on March 03, 2013, 08:53:45 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 03, 2013, 08:42:28 PM
voxxpopulisuxx, stop playing the white knight act. You're becoming as laughable as KK.

No need to attack either of these men - I disagree with them RE this... subject... but that's little reason to label them as "laughable."

Suits me fine. I bet if you had been around when St. John Chrysostom called the Jews "perfidious bandits, pests of the universe" you would have popped out of the woodwork pooh-poohing him for his uncharitable language.

Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2013, 08:59:27 PM
I love arguing, but not with devious types who make you do all the legwork.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: tmw89 on March 03, 2013, 09:02:08 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 03, 2013, 08:58:04 PM
Quote from: tmw89 on March 03, 2013, 08:53:45 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 03, 2013, 08:42:28 PM
voxxpopulisuxx, stop playing the white knight act. You're becoming as laughable as KK.

No need to attack either of these men - I disagree with them RE this... subject... but that's little reason to label them as "laughable."

Suits me fine. I bet if you had been around when St. John Chrysostom called the Jews "perfidious bandits, pests of the universe" you would have popped out of the woodwork pooh-poohing him for his uncharitable language.

No, no - please, rest assured Ben, I would not have said a word to that illustrious saint in opposition.  ;D
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: tmw89 on March 03, 2013, 09:03:32 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 03, 2013, 08:59:27 PM
I love arguing, but not with devious types who make you do all the legwork.

Here again, agreement!
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Ben on March 03, 2013, 09:04:53 PM
Good!  :)
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 03, 2013, 09:05:16 PM
Quote from: Ben on March 03, 2013, 08:59:27 PM
I love arguing, but not with devious types who make you do all the legwork.

What is devious about expecting you to make logical arguments?  Graham is taking the same position that you are and he is making reasoned arguments, not complaining about how hard it is to have to think.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 03, 2013, 09:12:09 PM
I am a Catholic in the sense that I believe everything the Church teaches I should believe, participate in the Sacraments and am in communion with the Pope (when there is one.)
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 09:54:48 PM
Jayne, it's pointless presenting you with logical arguments. You simple sidestep them and then ask for an argument again.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 03, 2013, 10:04:37 PM
Quote from: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 09:54:48 PM
Jayne, it's pointless presenting you with logical arguments. You simple sidestep them and then ask for an argument again.

I concede to logical arguments if they are good enough.  But I am sure not convinced by people telling me I am devious or not a real Catholic. 
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: dueSicilie on March 03, 2013, 10:09:45 PM
Quote from: RealJayneK on March 03, 2013, 10:04:37 PM
But I am sure not convinced by people telling me I am devious or not a real Catholic.

Well, I'm certainly not going to endorse that.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Graham on March 04, 2013, 12:09:20 AM
Quote from: RealJayneK on March 03, 2013, 07:45:43 PM
Right now, Judaism is the weakest it has ever been.  They will not survive if current trends continue.

Wow, that's an incredibly bold position. The Jews have their own ethno-state, in which the current political climate is pretty far right. They have a world class conventional military and an arsenal of nukes. The have what amounts to a death grip on the economy, politics, and cultural life of the West. Now, if you want to argue that diaspora Jews are increasingly secular, that the godlessness they did so much to spread is coming back to bite them, I'm sure there's some truth to that, but they retain their group loyalty and their Talmudic anti-Christ mentality.

Quote from: JayneKOf course, they weren't forced into predatory lending.  They chose to be predatory.  But money lending was one of few means of livelihood left open to them.

I suspect this is an overgeneralization, and I'm certain that the Jewish affinity for usury predates ecclesiastical and civil restrictions, since Jesus cast them out of the temple 1000 years before Innocent III was around. It is probably a Jewish narrative that they were forced into it.

Quote from: JayneKI did not say anything about having particular sympathy for Jews.

You sure post a lot about the subject.

Quote from: JayneKIf the highest law is the salvation of souls then encouraging conversions should be the determining factor in establishing policies toward Jews.  There is nothing in Catholic tradition that says it is OK to say "well they won't convert anyhow so we don't need to think about this."

Then why did the Church act to restrict them for so many centuries? It was self-defense against an intransigent and rapacious enemy.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Vetus Ordo on March 04, 2013, 11:42:52 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 07:20:33 PM
He who denys that Christ has come in the flesh is of antichrist

Which includes a lot of people besides Jews.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 05, 2013, 08:11:13 PM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 04, 2013, 11:42:52 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 07:20:33 PM
He who denys that Christ has come in the flesh is of antichrist

Which includes a lot of people besides Jews.
well of course but eretz Israel is an entire nuclear armed criminal nation which holds the USA's leadership by the shortys. It is the seat of antichrist in the current world.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Vetus Ordo on March 05, 2013, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 05, 2013, 08:11:13 PM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 04, 2013, 11:42:52 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 07:20:33 PM
He who denys that Christ has come in the flesh is of antichrist

Which includes a lot of people besides Jews.
well of course but eretz Israel is an entire nuclear armed criminal nation which holds the USA's leadership by the shortys. It is the seat of antichrist in the current world.

Is that a definite assessment?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: poche on March 06, 2013, 12:01:33 AM
If Jesus was not a Jew, then why did he follow the Jewish law?
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 06, 2013, 05:00:42 AM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 05, 2013, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 05, 2013, 08:11:13 PM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 04, 2013, 11:42:52 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 07:20:33 PM
He who denys that Christ has come in the flesh is of antichrist

Which includes a lot of people besides Jews.
well of course but eretz Israel is an entire nuclear armed criminal nation which holds the USA's leadership by the shortys. It is the seat of antichrist in the current world.

Is that a definite assessment?
as far as Im concerned...prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Vetus Ordo on March 07, 2013, 12:23:22 AM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 06, 2013, 05:00:42 AM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 05, 2013, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 05, 2013, 08:11:13 PM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 04, 2013, 11:42:52 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 07:20:33 PM
He who denys that Christ has come in the flesh is of antichrist

Which includes a lot of people besides Jews.
well of course but eretz Israel is an entire nuclear armed criminal nation which holds the USA's leadership by the shortys. It is the seat of antichrist in the current world.

Is that a definite assessment?
as far as Im concerned...prove me wrong.

You want me to prove a negative? That Israel is not the seat of the antichrist?

I believe it works the other way around.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 07, 2013, 06:30:17 PM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 07, 2013, 12:23:22 AM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 06, 2013, 05:00:42 AM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 05, 2013, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 05, 2013, 08:11:13 PM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 04, 2013, 11:42:52 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 07:20:33 PM
He who denys that Christ has come in the flesh is of antichrist

Which includes a lot of people besides Jews.
well of course but eretz Israel is an entire nuclear armed criminal nation which holds the USA's leadership by the shortys. It is the seat of antichrist in the current world.

Is that a definite assessment?
as far as Im concerned...prove me wrong.

You want me to prove a negative? That Israel is not the seat of the antichrist?

I believe it works the other way around.
No I asserted my evidence you need to refute it. The Bible clearly states what it does....Eretz Isreal is the only world power that has at its core an adherence to the denial of Jesus Christ specifically. While other communists countrys ban Christianity or religion...no other nation uses the denial of Jesus Christ as a tenet of its nationality. And no other country is so committed to violence and hatred....and no other nation has the holy land in its borders.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Gottmitunsalex on March 07, 2013, 09:45:31 PM
We even have Jewish converts to Catholicism today, like Roy Schoeman and David Moss, who propagate these same sentiments by claiming that the Old Covenant is still in force, and that the Jews are going to take over Palestine under divine mandate and offer sacrifices in Jerusalem again, and all this in fulfillment, they claim, by the words of Jesus Christ. This is total nonsense, and it is one of the most pernicious and nefarious heresies the Church has ever faced...

http://sungenisandthejews.com/Converts_and_Conclusion.html (http://sungenisandthejews.com/Converts_and_Conclusion.html)

Talk about modern marranos.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Vetus Ordo on March 08, 2013, 02:41:44 AM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 07, 2013, 06:30:17 PM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 07, 2013, 12:23:22 AM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 06, 2013, 05:00:42 AM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 05, 2013, 11:56:19 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 05, 2013, 08:11:13 PM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 04, 2013, 11:42:52 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 03, 2013, 07:20:33 PM
He who denys that Christ has come in the flesh is of antichrist

Which includes a lot of people besides Jews.
well of course but eretz Israel is an entire nuclear armed criminal nation which holds the USA's leadership by the shortys. It is the seat of antichrist in the current world.

Is that a definite assessment?
as far as Im concerned...prove me wrong.

You want me to prove a negative? That Israel is not the seat of the antichrist?

I believe it works the other way around.
No I asserted my evidence you need to refute it. The Bible clearly states what it does....Eretz Isreal is the only world power that has at its core an adherence to the denial of Jesus Christ specifically. While other communists countrys ban Christianity or religion...no other nation uses the denial of Jesus Christ as a tenet of its nationality. And no other country is so committed to violence and hatred....and no other nation has the holy land in its borders.

Israel is a secular country, as far as I can tell.  I'd hardly say that the nation has at its core an adherence to the denial of Jesus Christ.

As for being committed to violence and hatred, it's no more than its Arab neighbours.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 08, 2013, 04:40:46 AM
A secular nation where only jews ( christians need not apply)are allowed to be formal citizen and hold office. And violence begats violence...the holy land was peacful till anti christ took over. Also whatever you think you know about islam is taught you thru the zionist press. The russian and arab press hold a different narrative. BTW where is the seat of antichrist according to catholic interpritation of scripture? The holy land.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Vetus Ordo on March 08, 2013, 04:10:52 PM
Quote from: voxxpopulisuxx on March 08, 2013, 04:40:46 AM
A secular nation where only jews ( christians need not apply)are allowed to be formal citizen and hold office. And violence begats violence...the holy land was peacful till anti christ took over. Also whatever you think you know about islam is taught you thru the zionist press. The russian and arab press hold a different narrative. BTW where is the seat of antichrist according to catholic interpritation of scripture? The holy land.

1. There are many secular Jews in Israel who don't care about religion at all. No-one is required to deny Christ in order to live in Israel.
2. Violence is not an exclusive trait of the Israeli state. And you should keep in mind that militarisation is mainly a survival tactic since most of its neighbours are hostile to its existence. If Israel is the seat of the antichrist because it engages in warfare, what can we say of the United States?
3. The Holy Land has been a stage for warfare for many centuries, it's not something new. I'd prefer that there was an International mandate for Palestine, similar to the British mandate after WW1, but that's simply not possible today. Israel has lawlfully won its right to exist as any state down in history has: by fighting for it.
4. I haven't learned about Islam through the Zionist press. I actually studied in a mosque with Muslims.
5. The seat of the antichrist is not necessarily the Holy Land.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 08, 2013, 06:52:16 PM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 08, 2013, 04:10:52 PM


1. There are many secular Jews in Israel who don't care about religion at all. No-one is required to deny Christ in order to live in Israel.
The Jerusalem Post:

A director of the US Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations and his wife were detained Sunday at Ben-Gurion Airport by Interior Ministry officials amid allegations he is involved in illegal Christian missionary activity. It is illegal in Israel to proselytize among minors.  It is also prohibited to engage in missionary activities among adults when economic incentives are offered...

After over eight hours of detention, Jamie Cowen, a former president of the union, and his wife, Stacy, were permitted to enter Israel only after they agreed to sign a document that they would not engage in missionary activities during their stay...The Interior Ministry, which directed the police to arrest the Cowens, said they had classified information regarding missionary activity.

Cowen, who is also a U.S. immigration lawyer, comments: "This type of religious discrimination would be expected of Iran, not Israel...In the US we imprison individuals suspected of terrorism. Here apparently one can be jailed for his religious convictions. This is a case of blatant discrimination against basic rights." ("Messianic Jews detained at Ben-Gurion," The Jerusalem Post, Dec. 14, 2008)


Jewish Christian in Israel Seeks Protection from Repeated Attacks:   http://www.worldwatchmonitor.org/english/country/israel/13055/ (http://www.worldwatchmonitor.org/english/country/israel/13055/)

Police unresponsive to U.S.-born activist assaulted for his faith.
JERUSALEM, December 28 (World Watch Monitor) — A Christian of Jewish origin who has been attacked on the streets here four times because of his faith in Christ is seeking police protection.

Jerusalem resident Yossi Yomtov said police have been slow to investigate hate crimes against him by youths wearing kippahs, cloth skullcaps typically worn by observant Jews. In two of the attacks a youth plied him with pepper spray and stun gun shocks, he said.

"This young man cursed me for my belief in Christ," Yomtov told Compass. "He used ugly curses and spoke in highly abusive language."

Yomtov, who founded social activist group Lemallah ("Upward") after moving to Israel from the United States in 1999, said he was last attacked on Dec. 19. On that occasion his group was holding a demonstration in downtown Jerusalem, he said, when a man chanting anti-Christian slogans and using foul language approached him and begin striking him. Police never showed up in spite of many calls to the police station, he said.

Yomtov said he received Christ in 1984, while still living in the United States. He said he became a Christian after he "hit the bottom" – taking drugs and engaging in "in illegal activity." He regards himself as a Jewish Christian belonging to no one church; he does not belong to the highly organized movement of Messianic Jews.

"I'm not secretive about my belief like some other people, and I often talk about it," he told Compass. "That's how many people are aware of me believing in Jesus Christ."

In previous attacks in the last few months, the assailants appeared to be teenaged or young men of French origin, he said.

"When they approached, one of them started cursing me – I ignored him, as I figured he wasn't about to attack me, but he did," Yomtov said. "I received a punch in the face and had to defend myself."

Police arrived and caught one of the attackers but refused his request to press charges, he said. Yomtov said he asked police why they didn't secure any witnesses.

"I was told to shut up," he said. "It was clear that they were not going to press any charges."A month later, he said, he was attacked again. The same teenaged youth approached him on King George street in downtown Jerusalem.

"He sprayed my eyes with a pepper spray, and I stood there, blind, for at least 15 minutes," Yomtov said. "People at a nearby bus stop started calling the police, but they never showed up."

Late at night on Oct. 12, the harrasment continued.

"I was walking in the city center, in close proximity to a very central Ben-Yehuda street sometime after midnight, and a group of youths with stun guns attacked me brutally," he said. "I rushed to the police station, but the police officer again was reluctant to take up this complaint, and it took quite a few times and a lot of me convincing them to take this matter seriously."

Yomtov said he managed to take a photo with his cell phone of the youth who seemed to be the gang leader.
"Finally they agreed to start investigating this issue, yet so far there is no progress in the investigation, and I have totally lost a sense of personal security," he said. "I don't know when they'll come up to me next."

Police in Jerusalem declined to comment on Yomtov's case in spite of repeated requests by Compass.

On one street, Yomtov pointed to a morass of hatefull grafitti. Written with Hebrew characters, some of it employed foul language in referring to Christianity and Islam; other messages proclaimed threats such as, "Death to Arabs" and "Death to the left."


"It seems as if they don't want to stop the hate crimes, the hate graffities, until it's too late," Yomtov said. "If they were serious about enforcing laws against violence they would have at least identified the perpetrator and submitted that information in the complaint file for the prosecutor. Instead they threatened me with arrest, when all I wanted was to investigate the violent crime against me."

He referred to the recent indictment of ultra-orthodox Jewish extremist Jacob Teitel, an immigrant from the United States charged with multiple hate crimes, including the murder of an Arab shepherd and taxi driver in 1997 and the planting of an explosive device at the front door of a family of Messianic Jews in Ariel that seriously injured 15-year-old Ami Ortiz.

"I wonder whether the Israeli police could prevent the crimes Jacob Teitel performed, had they been taking him seriously from the beginning," said Yomtov. "It seems that the Israeli police only care to investigate hate crimes when someone is killed or seriously injured."



2. Violence is not an exclusive trait of the Israeli state. And you should keep in mind that militarisation is mainly a survival tactic since most of its neighbours are hostile to its existence.Yes because they are a criminal terrorist state put in place by the godless UN and morally bankrupt UK If Israel is the seat of the antichrist because it engages in warfare, what can we say of the United States?The whore of Babylon...Israels bitch

3. The Holy Land has been a stage for warfare for many centuriesFalse assertion...make your case....Many a Catholic prelate disagrees with you as do JEWS! [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-7ymz53WZE[/yt], it's not something new. I'd prefer that there was an International mandate for Palestine, similar to the British mandate after WW1simply the brits setting the table for the zionists
"The Balfour Declaration, made in November 1917 by the British Government...was made a) by a European power, b) about a non-European territory, c) in flat disregard of both the presence and wishes of the native majority resident in that territory...[As Balfour himself wrote in 1919], 'The contradiction between the letter of the Covenant (the Anglo French Declaration of 1918 promising the Arabs of the former Ottoman colonies that as a reward for supporting the Allies they could have their independence) is even more flagrant in the case of the independent nation of Palestine than in that of the independent nation of Syria. For in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country...The four powers are committed to Zionism and Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long tradition, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desire and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land,'" Edward Said, "The Question of Palestine.", but that's simply not possible today. Israel has lawlfully won its right to exist as any state down in history has: by fighting for it.Zionist narrative- it was won by terrorism and political maneuvering....it is not a moral fight when the "enemy" Palestine has its hands tied behind its back by thug internationalists  while the terrorists steal everything they have - so If I get a couple of goons to come with me into your house...and while they hold you down...I rape and pilliage and then break your legs and throw you in the basement....I get to keep your house legitimately?

4. I haven't learned about Islam through the Zionist press. I actually studied in a mosque with Muslims.Try to get into Israel or the USA after telling them that

5. The seat of the antichrist is not necessarily the Holy Land."Christ arose from among the Hebrews, and he (Antichrist) will spring from among the Jews. Christ showed His flesh as a Temple, and raised it up on the third day; and he, too, will raise up again the Temple of stone in Jerusalem." (St. Hippolytus)

"Antichrist, the son of perdition will be born in Corozain, will be brought up in Bethsaida and shall begin to reign in Capharnaum, according to what Our Lord Jesus said in the Gospel: "Woe to thee Corozain ... woe to thee Bethsaida ... and thou Capharnaum that art exalted up to heaven, thou shalt be thrust down to hell. (Luke, 10:13) Antichrist shall work a thousand prodigies on earth. He will make the blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk, the dead rise, so that even the Elect, if possible, shall be deceived by his magical arts. Puffed up with pride, Antichrist shall enter in triumph the city of Jerusalem and will sit on a throne in the Temple to be adored as if he were the Son of God. His heart being intoxicated with arrogance, he will forget his being a mere man, and the son of a woman of the tribe of Dan." (St. Zenobius)

"Antichrist will be born of Jewish parents, of the tribe of Dan, but his mother will not be a virgin, as many believe. As the Holy Ghost came into the heart of Mary, so will the devil enter into the mother of Antichrist, and his diabolical power will always support him. Babylon will be his birthplace, but he will be reared and instructed in Bethsaida and Corozain. After his education at the hands of malignant spirits he will go to Jerusalem and place his seat in the Temple which he will have restored. He will submit to the rite of circumcision, claiming that he is the Son of the Omnipotent God. His first converts will be kings and princes. His influence will extend from sea to sea, largely through force and persuasive eloquence. He will perform many signs and great miracles. Those who believe in him will be marked on the forehead with a sign. For three and a half years he will hold sway and, at the end of that period, he will put to death Henoch and Elias, who will have previously opposed him by preaching the true faith. Shortly afterwards, Christ will appear, and Antichrist will be killed by Michael the Archangel." (Adso the Monk, 10th Century)

"And we beseech you, Brethren, by the coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ and of our gathering together unto Him: that you may not be easily moved from your sense, nor be terrified, neither by spirit, nor by, word, nor by epistle as sent from us as if the day of the Lord were at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and is lifted above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the Temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God." (2 Thess., 2:1-4)

"Antichrist will teach that Christ was an impostor, and not the real Son of God."TALMUDISM not Islam (St. Hilary)

"One day we asked St. Martin of Tours about the End of the World, and he said that Nero and the Antichrist would come first. Nero would subdue ten kings and rule in the countries of the West. A persecution he was to impose would go so far as to require the worship of heathen idols. Antichrist would first seize the empires of the East; he would have Jerusalem as his seat and imperial Capital. Both the city and its temple were to be rebuilt by him. His persecution would require the denial of Christ's divinity (he himself pretending to be Christ) and would by law impose circumcision on all. Finally, Nero himself was to perish at the hands of Antichrist. In this way, the whole world and its peoples would be brought under his yoke, until, at Christ's coming, the impious imposter would be overcome." (Sulpicius Severus)
(Note 1). The reappearance of Nero does not mean the resurrection of the actual Nero, but the rise of a man as wicked as he or, perhaps, a man having the same name.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Heinrich on March 09, 2013, 02:24:07 PM
Painter: 5. College boy: 0
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Gottmitunsalex on March 09, 2013, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: Heinrich on March 09, 2013, 02:24:07 PM
Painter: 5. College boy: 0
This
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 09, 2013, 11:52:11 PM
Quote from: Graham on March 04, 2013, 12:09:20 AM
Quote from: RealJayneK on March 03, 2013, 07:45:43 PM
Right now, Judaism is the weakest it has ever been.  They will not survive if current trends continue.

Wow, that's an incredibly bold position. The Jews have their own ethno-state, in which the current political climate is pretty far right. They have a world class conventional military and an arsenal of nukes. The have what amounts to a death grip on the economy, politics, and cultural life of the West. Now, if you want to argue that diaspora Jews are increasingly secular, that the godlessness they did so much to spread is coming back to bite them, I'm sure there's some truth to that, but they retain their group loyalty and their Talmudic anti-Christ mentality.

Israel's power depends on support from the US and they cannot retain this much longer.  People in the US are getting fed up.  And Jewish cohesion as a group is disintegrating due to inter-marriage.  Among Jews this is what they identify as the greatest threat to their existence and I think they are right.

In my personal experience, I look at my immediate generation of first cousins and siblings.  There are 9 of us.  Of those 5 are married and 1 is in a long-term relationship.  Only 1 married a Jew and they did not have children.  Every child of the next generation lacks 2 Jewish parents and they are not likely to think of themselves as Jewish.  This situation is not unusual.  What people could survive this? 

Quote from: Graham on March 04, 2013, 12:09:20 AM
Quote from: JayneKI did not say anything about having particular sympathy for Jews.

You sure post a lot about the subject.

The person in this forum who posts the most about Jews is Ben.  Almost everything that I have written is a direct or indirect reaction to him.

Quote from: Graham on March 04, 2013, 12:09:20 AM
Quote from: JayneKIf the highest law is the salvation of souls then encouraging conversions should be the determining factor in establishing policies toward Jews.  There is nothing in Catholic tradition that says it is OK to say "well they won't convert anyhow so we don't need to think about this."

Then why did the Church act to restrict them for so many centuries? It was self-defense against an intransigent and rapacious enemy.

Perhaps it was a good approach to take in those circumstances.  On the other hand, if it was a good approach why are Jews still such a problem? 
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 09, 2013, 11:55:34 PM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 08, 2013, 04:10:52 PM
1. There are many secular Jews in Israel who don't care about religion at all. No-one is required to deny Christ in order to live in Israel.

As I understand it, I would be required to deny Christ to immigrate to Israel.  As a convert to Catholicism, I would be rejected.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: voxxpopulisuxx on March 10, 2013, 05:05:46 AM
Quote from: RealJayneK on March 09, 2013, 11:55:34 PM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on March 08, 2013, 04:10:52 PM
1. There are many secular Jews in Israel who don't care about religion at all. No-one is required to deny Christ in order to live in Israel.

As I understand it, I would be required to deny Christ to immigrate to Israel.  As a convert to Catholicism, I would be rejected.
Thank you jayne....for backing up this point. And your insiders take is interesting. As I see it the minute. The usa stops backing Israel...they will unleash a sh## storm of falseflags on us...thus causing further isolation of israel...and as they get cornered like the dog they are...up pops antichrist to save them. Just a speculation of course...btw I think I post more on the subject than you.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Graham on March 10, 2013, 09:53:09 AM
Quote from: RealJayneK on March 09, 2013, 11:52:11 PM
Quote from: Graham on March 04, 2013, 12:09:20 AM
Quote from: RealJayneK on March 03, 2013, 07:45:43 PM
Right now, Judaism is the weakest it has ever been.  They will not survive if current trends continue.

Wow, that's an incredibly bold position. The Jews have their own ethno-state, in which the current political climate is pretty far right. They have a world class conventional military and an arsenal of nukes. The have what amounts to a death grip on the economy, politics, and cultural life of the West. Now, if you want to argue that diaspora Jews are increasingly secular, that the godlessness they did so much to spread is coming back to bite them, I'm sure there's some truth to that, but they retain their group loyalty and their Talmudic anti-Christ mentality.

Israel's power depends on support from the US and they cannot retain this much longer.  People in the US are getting fed up.

Show me the evidence that they're getting fed up, or that it would matter if they were. 99% consider Iran's "development of nuclear weapons" a critical or important threat to US interests. Hagel backed down and said he is "committed" to the "special US-Israel relationship".

Quote from: JayneAnd Jewish cohesion as a group is disintegrating due to inter-marriage.  Among Jews this is what they identify as the greatest threat to their existence and I think they are right.

Most Jews live in Israel, and this issue exists mostly in the diaspora, and even there, it's the observant Jews with the highest fertility rates. These problems are exaggerated for political reasons. Jews are very adept fearmongers. Read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/17/opinion/17GOLD.html

"According to reports in major news outlets, a study published last week included a startling discovery: the nation's Jewish population is shrinking. The study, the National Jewish Population Survey, found 5.2 million Jews living in the United States in 2000, a drop of 5 percent, or 300,000 people, since a similar study in 1990. What's truly startling is that the reported decline is not true. Worse still, the sponsor of the $6 million study, United Jewish Communities, knows it."

Quote from: RealJayneK on March 09, 2013, 11:52:11 PM
Quote from: Graham on March 04, 2013, 12:09:20 AM
Quote from: JayneKI did not say anything about having particular sympathy for Jews.

You sure post a lot about the subject.

The person in this forum who posts the most about Jews is Ben.  Almost everything that I have written is a direct or indirect reaction to him.

Assuming Ben does post more often about Jews than you, that doesn't mean you don't post a lot about them, or that your posts don't evince a particular sympathy for them.

Quote from: Jayne
Quote from: Graham on March 04, 2013, 12:09:20 AM
Quote from: JayneKIf the highest law is the salvation of souls then encouraging conversions should be the determining factor in establishing policies toward Jews.  There is nothing in Catholic tradition that says it is OK to say "well they won't convert anyhow so we don't need to think about this."

Then why did the Church act to restrict them for so many centuries? It was self-defense against an intransigent and rapacious enemy.

Perhaps it was a good approach to take in those circumstances.  On the other hand, if it was a good approach why are Jews still such a problem?

Perhaps? For centuries it was official Church policy to ostracize the Jews. That is something you have to come to terms with, something your thought on this subject should reflect... The Jews are a much bigger problem than before, thanks precisely to their emancipation and subsequent growth in power and prestige. Your thinking is sloppy.
Title: Re: Byzantine Empire and the Jewish Problem
Post by: Jayne on March 10, 2013, 03:48:50 PM
Quote from: Graham on March 10, 2013, 09:53:09 AM
Quote from: RealJayneK on March 09, 2013, 11:52:11 PM
Israel's power depends on support from the US and they cannot retain this much longer.  People in the US are getting fed up.

Show me the evidence that they're getting fed up, or that it would matter if they were. 99% consider Iran's "development of nuclear weapons" a critical or important threat to US interests. Hagel backed down and said he is "committed" to the "special US-Israel relationship". 

The media reporting of Palestinians as victims of Jewish oppression has been steadily increasing.  I see this as a sign that the control over the media is weakening.  Once they have lost the media manipulated public opinion, the political support will follow.

Quote from: Graham on March 10, 2013, 09:53:09 AM
Quote from: JayneAnd Jewish cohesion as a group is disintegrating due to inter-marriage.  Among Jews this is what they identify as the greatest threat to their existence and I think they are right.

Most Jews live in Israel, and this issue exists mostly in the diaspora, and even there, it's the observant Jews with the highest fertility rates. These problems are exaggerated for political reasons. Jews are very adept fearmongers. Read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/17/opinion/17GOLD.html

"According to reports in major news outlets, a study published last week included a startling discovery: the nation's Jewish population is shrinking. The study, the National Jewish Population Survey, found 5.2 million Jews living in the United States in 2000, a drop of 5 percent, or 300,000 people, since a similar study in 1990. What's truly startling is that the reported decline is not true. Worse still, the sponsor of the $6 million study, United Jewish Communities, knows it."

Is there some reason you doubt the Wikipedia figures which show less than half of the world's Jews living in Israel?  Other than that it is Wikipedia, I mean. :)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country)

The situation in Israel is different than the diaspora.  The diaspora Jews are steadily decreasing and Israel is a small country that is dependent on US support.


Quote from: Graham on March 10, 2013, 09:53:09 AM
Quote from: RealJayneK on March 09, 2013, 11:52:11 PM
The person in this forum who posts the most about Jews is Ben.  Almost everything that I have written is a direct or indirect reaction to him.

Assuming Ben does post more often about Jews than you, that doesn't mean you don't post a lot about them, or that your posts don't evince a particular sympathy for them.

My posts on Judaism are a small fraction of my total posts and I am not sure why you are seeing sympathy for them when I am not feeling it.

Quote from: Graham on March 04, 2013, 12:09:20 AM
Quote from: JayneK
Perhaps it was a good approach to take in those circumstances.  On the other hand, if it was a good approach why are Jews still such a problem?

Perhaps? For centuries it was official Church policy to ostracize the Jews. That is something you have to come to terms with, something your thought on this subject should reflect... The Jews are a much bigger problem than before, thanks precisely to their emancipation and subsequent growth in power and prestige. Your thinking is sloppy.

Ostracizing Jews contributes to them retaining a strong sense of identity.  And I am not convinced that Jews are a bigger problem than before.  They look to me like they are about to implode in a couple of generations.

Edit to add:  It occurs to me that you may interpret my prediction of implosion as an expression of sympathy.  Let me clarify that it is not.  I think that a loss of Jewish identity is a good thing.  This identity often stands between Jews and conversion to Christ.