Vigano bets the entire farm

Started by Greg, October 30, 2020, 08:48:16 AM

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Miriam_M

Quote from: Innocent Smith on October 31, 2020, 01:20:08 AM
Never heard him talk about Africans as being the primary reason for the Liturgy being said in the vernacular.  But you want to know who did speculate about this idea over 15 years ago?  Why it was little ole me!

Some of us have known this for more than 15 years -- not that that's a criticism of you.  It's just that we were told by priests that the explicit reason for the vernacular was for the missions, and especially the African missions.
:)

But the amusing part is now is, What do trad apostolates bring to African mission territories today?  The Latin Mass --- just as pre-V2 Catholic missionaries brought the Latin Mass to Africa.

Innocent Smith

Quote from: Miriam_M on October 31, 2020, 01:47:47 AM
Quote from: Innocent Smith on October 31, 2020, 01:20:08 AM
Never heard him talk about Africans as being the primary reason for the Liturgy being said in the vernacular.  But you want to know who did speculate about this idea over 15 years ago?  Why it was little ole me!

Some of us have known this for more than 15 years -- not that that's a criticism of you.  It's just that we were told by priests that the explicit reason for the vernacular was for the missions, and especially the African missions.
:)

But the amusing part is now is, What do trad apostolates bring to African mission territories today?  The Latin Mass --- just as pre-V2 Catholic missionaries brought the Latin Mass to Africa.

Very interesting.  Never heard anyone mention it before.  At best I think this a theory as to why the entire world had to go the way of the vernacular.

There were always in many places exceptions.  Including all sorts of different Rites before Trent and some still exist to this day. 

If this is in fact true, I still think the real story is that at this point in time the Church becomes an NGO subsisting within U.N.I.C.E.F.

Getting back to Jones.  The idea that the early '60s was a hopeful time in the Church is pretty naive as well.  Sounds like a typical Boomer here if I ever heard one. 

Vatican II was driven by fear of Man ending the World vis a vis nuclear weapons.  Whether they exist or not.  Duck and cover, Dr. Jones.  The Church in Her infinite Wisdom decided that Man was to be feared more than God in calling an end to Life on Earth. 

Now that I look in the rearview mirror I see that George F. Kennan and I were both wrong.  Nuclear weapons are clearly NOT impotent.

They took down Christ's Church.

Diligam te, Domine. David's thanks to God for his delivery from all his enemies.

[1] Unto the end, for David the servant of the Lord, who spoke to the Lord the words of this canticle, in the day that the Lord delivered him from the hands of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul. [2 Kings 22] [2] I will love thee, O Lord, my strength: [3] The Lord is my firmament, my refuge, and my deliverer. My God is my helper, and in him will I put my trust. My protector and the horn of my salvation, and my support. [4] Praising I will call upon the Lord: and I shall be saved from my enemies. [5] The sorrows of death surrounded me: and the torrents of iniquity troubled me.

[6] The sorrows of hell encompassed me: and the snares of death prevented me. [7] In my affliction I called upon the Lord, and I cried to my God: And he heard my voice from his holy temple: and my cry before him came into his ears. [8] The earth shook and trembled: the foundations of the mountains were troubled and were moved, because he was angry with them. [9] There went up a smoke in his wrath: and a fire flamed from his face: coals were kindled by it. [10] He bowed the heavens, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.

[11] And he ascended upon the cherubim, and he flew; he flew upon the wings of the winds. [12] And he made darkness his covert, his pavilion round about him: dark waters in the clouds of the air. [13] At the brightness that was before him the clouds passed, hail and coals of fire. [14] And the Lord thundered from heaven, and the highest gave his voice: hail and coals of fire. [15] And he sent forth his arrows, and he scattered them: he multiplied lightnings, and troubled them.

[16] Then the fountains of waters appeared, and the foundations of the world were discovered: At thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the spirit of thy wrath. [17] He sent from on high, and took me: and received me out of many waters. [18] He delivered me from my strongest enemies, and from them that hated me: for they were too strong for me. [19] They prevented me in the day of my affliction: and the Lord became my protector. [20] And he brought me forth into a large place: he saved me, because he was well pleased with me.

[21] And the Lord will reward me according to my justice; and will repay me according to the cleanness of my hands: [22] Because I have kept the ways of the Lord; and have not done wickedly against my God. [23] For till his judgments are in my sight: and his justices I have not put away from me. [24] And I shall be spotless with him: and shall keep myself from my iniquity. [25] And the Lord will reward me according to my justice; and according to the cleanness of my hands before his eyes.

[26] With the holy, thou wilt be holy; and with the innocent man thou wilt be innocent. [27] And with the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted. [28] For thou wilt save the humble people; but wilt bring down the eyes of the proud. [29] For thou lightest my lamp, O Lord: O my God enlighten my darkness. [30] For by thee I shall be delivered from temptation; and through my God I shall go over a wall.

[31] As for my God, his way is undefiled: the words of the Lord are fire tried: he is the protector of all that trust in him. [32] For who is God but the Lord? or who is God but our God? [33] God who hath girt me with strength; and made my way blameless. [34] Who hath made my feet like the feet of harts: and who setteth me upon high places. [35] Who teacheth my hands to war: and thou hast made my arms like a brazen bow.

[36] And thou hast given me the protection of thy salvation: and thy right hand hath held me up: And thy discipline hath corrected me unto the end: and thy discipline, the same shall teach me. [37] Thou hast enlarged my steps under me; and my feet are not weakened. [38] I will pursue after my enemies, and overtake them: and I will not turn again till they are consumed. [39] I will break them, and they shall not be able to stand: they shall fall under my feet. [40] And thou hast girded me with strength unto battle; and hast subdued under me them that rose up against me.

[41] And thou hast made my enemies turn their back upon me, and hast destroyed them that hated me. [42] They cried, but there was none to save them, to the Lord: but he heard them not. [43] And I shall beat them as small as the dust before the wind; I shall bring them to nought, like the dirt in the streets. [44] Thou wilt deliver me from the contradictions of the people: thou wilt make me head of the Gentiles. [45] A people, which I knew not, hath served me: at the hearing of the ear they have obeyed me.

[46] The children that are strangers have lied to me, strange children have faded away, and have halted from their paths. [47] The Lord liveth, and blessed be my God, and let the God of my salvation be exalted: [48] O God, who avengest me, and subduest the people under me, my deliverer from my enemies. [49] And thou wilt lift me up above them that rise up against me: from the unjust man thou wilt deliver me. [50] Therefore will I give glory to thee, O Lord, among the nations, and I will sing a psalm to thy name.

[51] Giving great deliverance to his king, and shewing mercy to David his anointed: and to his seed for ever.
I am going to hold a pistol to the head of the modern man. But I shall not use it to kill him, only to bring him to life.

james03

Vigano made it to a Q post.  Q also posted the following link:

https://time.com/collection/great-reset/

Again, I think Vigano was discussing open-source info.  I was familiar with the term "The Great Reset", though in the context of using SDRs to bail out insolvent countries.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

awkwardcustomer

And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.

james03

From the Spectator:

QuoteThe Forum's founder and executive chair, Klaus Schwab, also believes 'The pandemic represents a rare but narrow window of opportunity to reflect, reimagine, and reset our world'. 'All aspects of our societies and economies must be revamped, from education, to social contracts and working conditions.' He labels this the 'Great Reset'. .....Indeed, the World Economic Forum, the United Nations and its various agencies will use the current depressed economic environment, masked as it is by endless government support, together with renewed forecasts of apocalyptic climate change, to push for a 'more inclusive social contract', a decarbonised economy and a 'control without ownership' business sector, where companies 'serve all stakeholders not just shareholders'.

Vigano was not doing an intel drop, and I don't believe that was his intent.  He perhaps suffers from one of my faults: failure to distinguish between "predictions" and "analysis" in his writing.

Also note that the World Economic Forum has heavy Soros involvement.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

awkwardcustomer

And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.

Elizabeth.2

Don't ever forget Gorbechev's Earth Charter which wasLaudato si before getting the Bergoglian touch. 

mikemac

Yeah, there may be something to this.  You know the rumour from the anonymous Liberal committee member.  I couldn't find anything to verify it so I did a search for 'IMF The Great Reset' and found this video of the Sky News Australia reporter pretty much spelling out dooms day.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeykREAlYSg[/yt]

I believe the Australian reporter is talking about this World Economic Forum video called The Great Reset that's on the International Monetary Fund Facebook page.  I'm going to have to watch it again because I fell asleep while watching it last night.  A lot of crap about the environment at the start of the video.

https://www.facebook.com/imf/videos/the-great-reset/607274909889882/

Klaus Schwab and his wife founded the World Economic Forum.

Klaus Schwab & his Communist Revolution

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/politics/klaus-schwab-his-communist-revolution/


If Trump gets re-elected it will probably throw a wrench into their plan.  Hopefully.  Although Trump has mentioned the vaccine numerous times himself.


Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima's prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is "despair, overcome."
Source

awkwardcustomer

#38
UN Agenda 2!/30 is a key part of the Great Reset. 

Here Spiro Skouras interviews Rosa Koire, author of 'Behind the Green Mask: UN Agenda 21' and founder of 'Democrats Against UN Agenda 21'. 

And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.

Prayerful

I don't see the betting here. People who will listen to him, will listen. Most think of him as some sort of marginal crank. If the McCarrick report still exists, and gets released soon, that would change. Other if were released post Francis, Barron and other rank conmen will go on about how they were secretly opposing him, so secretly the evidence of it doesn't exist.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.

drummerboy

Quote from: Greg on October 30, 2020, 11:18:22 PM
He is a coward in that case.

He is supposed to be a Archbishop.

What is he afraid of?  Death finds us all.

In that case St. Thomas More would be the greatest coward of all
- I'll get with the times when the times are worth getting with

"I like grumpy old cusses.  Hope to live long enough to be one" - John Wayne

Greg

#41
We don't execute people any longer.

If +Marcel Lefebvre was not assassinated then neither will +Vigano be.  In his paranoid Italian mind he might imagine he would be but I very much doubt it.  Why would they bother?

Thomas More knew he was for the chop.  Henry VIII had a personality for it and a habit of getting rid of people he found inconvenient.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

drummerboy

Quote from: Greg on November 01, 2020, 03:56:45 AM
We don't execute people any longer.

If +Marcel Lefebvre was not assassinated then neither will +Vigano be.  In his paranoid Italian mind he might imagine he would be but I very much doubt it.  Why would they bother?

Thomas More knew he was for the chop.  Henry VIII had a personality for it and a habit of getting rid of people he found inconvenient.

No, they just conveniently commit suicide.
- I'll get with the times when the times are worth getting with

"I like grumpy old cusses.  Hope to live long enough to be one" - John Wayne

Heinrich

Quote from: drummerboy on November 01, 2020, 10:36:00 AM
Quote from: Greg on November 01, 2020, 03:56:45 AM
We don't execute people any longer.

If +Marcel Lefebvre was not assassinated then neither will +Vigano be.  In his paranoid Italian mind he might imagine he would be but I very much doubt it.  Why would they bother?

Thomas More knew he was for the chop.  Henry VIII had a personality for it and a habit of getting rid of people he found inconvenient.

No, they just conveniently commit suicide.

Or are "accidented." Like Haider:

Mossad spied on Austria's Haidar

Published: June 2, 2005 at 3:46 PM

LONDON, June 2 (UPI) — The Israeli secret service, Mossad, spied on Jörg Haider, the right-wing Austrian populist, The London Times newspaper reported Thursday.

Mossad used Peter Sichrovsky, one of Haidar's closest aides, to gather information on his contacts with Arab dictators. Sichrovsky said he had been a Mossad informant for five years until retiring from politics in 2002.

"I wanted to help Israel and certainly did not do anything wrong," said Sichrovsky, who was secretary-general of Haider's Freedom Party and a member of the European Parliament.

The Austrian state prosecutor said Wednesday he would open an investigation to determine whether Sichrovsky should be prosecuted. Spying for a foreign power carries in Austria a jail sentence of up to three years.

The revelations, in the news weekly Profil, stunned the Austrian political class. The Jewish community had regarded Sichrovsky as a traitor, while anti-Semitic Freedom Party activists made no secret of their distrust.

The Freedom Party became a member of Austria's governing coalition in 1999, prompting a diplomatic boycott by the European Union. Haider had publicly praised the SS and Hitler's employment policies. Israel withdrew its ambassador.

2005 United Press International, Inc.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

maryslittlegarden

Quote from: drummerboy on November 01, 2020, 10:36:00 AM
Quote from: Greg on November 01, 2020, 03:56:45 AM
We don't execute people any longer.

If +Marcel Lefebvre was not assassinated then neither will +Vigano be.  In his paranoid Italian mind he might imagine he would be but I very much doubt it.  Why would they bother?

Thomas More knew he was for the chop.  Henry VIII had a personality for it and a habit of getting rid of people he found inconvenient.

No, they just conveniently commit suicide.

Otherwise known as Arkanside
For a Child is born to us, and a son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counsellor, God the Mighty, the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace